2022 cars 'porpoising' at high speed

[SiLo]

Very high, maybe extreme ground effect generated by active non-conventional means in the last millennium with no porpoising (that i know of)
Now I am lost for words

Well yes because it has a big fan sucking the air out in a consistent fashion and minimal downforce from any other surface. In this context it is entirely unrelated.

With respect, you may be mistaken.
It is all related, it is not a binary situation
In problem solving, looking at many sources of information often helps in finding a solution.
I could almost guarantee some of the current designers would have looked at older race cars for this reason.
Are you saying this discussion should be limited to just the existing troublesome cars and the few who arent?
I for one want to know why with this reduced downforce formula, akin to the Chaparral, why these problems have cropped up.

They are the largest Gurney flaps I have seen.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look at older cars, I'm saying we should look at similar cars. And this one, with an entirely sealed underfloor is not similar in any way. Effectively it has no diffuser, or venturi tunnels, and the space underneath would be almost at minimum pressure whether the car was moving or not. Both of these are in stark contrast to the current, and older cars.

My point is, this car is a terrible comparison, not that making comparisons it terrible.

[mzso]

Well yes because it has a big fan sucking the air out in a consistent fashion and minimal downforce from any other surface. In this context it is entirely unrelated.

Also sideskirts by the looks of it, which would also prevent porpoising.

In problem solving, looking at many sources of information often helps in finding a solution.
I could almost guarantee some of the current designers would have looked at older race cars for this reason.

If it would be that simple, porpoising would never have come up this year.

[vorticism]

Unless the side skirts leaked too much over surface undulations, which would lead to downforce variation. They were probably leaking significantly constantly though.

[atanatizante]

Floor comparison between the RB18, F1-75 and W13:

[johnny comelately]

Floor comparison between the RB18, F1-75 and W13:

Somewhere else there also has been pictures of the undertrays of these three, but we need the McLaren too.

[atanatizante]

Don`t know if it`s the right thread to post these videos and mods are free to swap them all ...

2022 suspension layout:



2022 sidepods comparison:

[mzso]

Hello!

One question I keep thinking of, is: why isn't it possible to make the floors in such a way where they stall progressively?
So instead of abruptly loosing down-force and going into bouncing, it would just stop producing more down-force as speed increases beyond a certain point, or even better, progressively loose some down-force.

[Hoffman900]

Hello!

One question I keep thinking of, is: why isn't it possible to make the floors in such a way where they stall progressively?
So instead of abruptly loosing down-force and going into bouncing, it would just stop producing more down-force as speed increases beyond a certain point, or even better, progressively loose some down-force.

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

[teemah]

porpoising on some of the F1 cars is pretty bad but it’’s nothing compared to this poor guy!

[djos]

Hello!

One question I keep thinking of, is: why isn't it possible to make the floors in such a way where they stall progressively?
So instead of abruptly loosing down-force and going into bouncing, it would just stop producing more down-force as speed increases beyond a certain point, or even better, progressively loose some down-force.

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

Please prove this statement.

[Hoffman900]

Hello!

One question I keep thinking of, is: why isn't it possible to make the floors in such a way where they stall progressively?
So instead of abruptly loosing down-force and going into bouncing, it would just stop producing more down-force as speed increases beyond a certain point, or even better, progressively loose some down-force.

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

Please prove this statement.

I proved it by citing actual, lead F1 PhD aerodynamicists, past and present. Why are you willing to die on this hill?

[johnny comelately]

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

Please prove this statement.

I proved it by citing actual, lead F1 PhD aerodynamicists, past and present. Why are you willing to die on this hill?

That's so funny

[djos]

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

Please prove this statement.

I proved it by citing actual, lead F1 PhD aerodynamicists, past and present. Why are you willing to die on this hill?

I'm not planning on dying on any hill, I just don't believe anyone here has disproven the widely proposed floor choking theory. In fact, if we visit known good sources for information like "racecar engineering magazine", we find statements from current F1 TD Jody Egginton that seem to support the "floor choking" theory.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... g-problem/

Jody Egginton, Technical Director at Scuderia AlphaTauri, says, ‘With a ground effect floor, getting the most aerodynamic load means running the floors as close to the ground as possible – there’s an attractiveness in that, and there’s an aerodynamic benefit to do it. So, logically we all try to exploit that. The closer you get to the ground, the higher the risk of inducing instability from things like the floor choking. The floor stiffness can affect behaviour or lead to an oscillation, which means you’re picking upload and then losing it. Ultimately, that’s upsetting to the car’s performance as the aero load on the tire contact patch varies. Load means performance, which translates to better lap times so we will fight for peak load.’

I'm not calling anyone here out for being wrong, I'm just pointing out that there appears to be support for the theory from those who are intimately involved.

[J.A.W.]

"Stickiness" & "Springiness" in ground effect?

Check this NASA 'DIY' page to test out the aero-events:

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/airsim.html

[mzso]

Hello!

One question I keep thinking of, is: why isn't it possible to make the floors in such a way where they stall progressively?
So instead of abruptly loosing down-force and going into bouncing, it would just stop producing more down-force as speed increases beyond a certain point, or even better, progressively loose some down-force.

Because choke flow / stalling isn’t the issue.

If you loose downforce because the airflow is interrupted, interferred with (which is obviously happening) then it's stall.