2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[peewon]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-c ... xtra-help/

While some fans and certain media outlets continue to make excuses for Honda and downplay how bad their PU is, rival manufactures and FIA are thinking about changing the rules to help Honda even more than what is already allowed under ADUO. This should make it very clear where they stand when they are not even seen as a threat in the future by their competitors.

Huh? It's extremely evident they are the furthest behind. I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would disagree with that evaluation. But there is a difference between being the lowest performing PU (see Renault PU the last 4 years) and also being the "only reason" for a teams poor performance and mishaps. That is a distinction that is getting lost and yet it's one of the most important things for any of us to maybe comprehend here. You could put a Merc in the back of this car and we'd still be challenging a Haas. That is still unacceptable for the size and capability Aston has at the moment.

They are much further adrift than what Renault was. Just to put it in perspective, Renault was estimated to be down about 15-20 HP. In your previous post you said honda is only down 50HP. (its actually more) but thats 3 times worse than Renault was.

No one has said Aston doesnt have problems. But they have been preoccupied with making the car runnable on weekends. I.E fixing the vibration problems before anything else can be addressed. If they had a Merc engine in the back, they would have started a bit behind but there is a good chance they would have caught up mid season. Instead they are unlikely to be competitive for at least 2 years. Im fairly certain once the engine is at least usable, their aero will improve drastically within the season.

[GhostF1]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-c ... xtra-help/

While some fans and certain media outlets continue to make excuses for Honda and downplay how bad their PU is, rival manufactures and FIA are thinking about changing the rules to help Honda even more than what is already allowed under ADUO. This should make it very clear where they stand when they are not even seen as a threat in the future by their competitors.

Huh? It's extremely evident they are the furthest behind. I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would disagree with that evaluation. But there is a difference between being the lowest performing PU (see Renault PU the last 4 years) and also being the "only reason" for a teams poor performance and mishaps. That is a distinction that is getting lost and yet it's one of the most important things for any of us to maybe comprehend here. You could put a Merc in the back of this car and we'd still be challenging a Haas. That is still unacceptable for the size and capability Aston has at the moment.

They are much further adrift than what Renault was. Just to put it in perspective, Renault was estimated to be down about 15-20 HP. In your previous post you said honda is only down 50HP. (its actually more) but thats 3 times worse than Renault was.

No one has said Aston doesnt have problems. But they have been preoccupied with making the car runnable on weekends. I.E fixing the vibration problems before anything else can be addressed. If they had a Merc engine in the back, they would have started a bit behind but there is a good chance they would have caught up mid season. Instead they are unlikely to be competitive for at least 2 years. Im fairly certain once the engine is at least usable, their aero will improve drastically within the season.

Renault were 30 down. Publicly claiming as such. The vibration issues VERY likely stem from design choices made together by Honda and Aston and how it's mounted to the chassis. It's unlikely the ICE itself vibrates so significantly compared to other manufacturers. They are down on power, yes. Everyone knows that, this can be remedied.
I'm glad you know it's more than 50hp peak.. Care to show where that's shown? It'd be a monumental disaster if there was a 20-25% difference in power between the best and worst ICE when they for the most part, effectively carry over from previous regs and we are only talking 500hp.
I'd rather suggest it seems significantly more likely the issues are with regen and deployment for Honda as opposed to outright max hp from the ICE. Which comes down to integration of the electric motor, gearbox, rear braking setup and battery capability and what compromises were made for drivability.

It's a given their aero and chassis will improve over a season? But it's clear they need to sort the vibration problem out, which I maintain, is not a Honda only problem (and is the basis to this entire string of posts I've made), rather a big issue Aston need to figure out with the chassis as well. The only alternative to that is implying the Honda ICE is suddenly so poorly balanced compared to everything else, producing vibrations so violent that drivers can't continue for long... like seriously, surely we don't believe this is the case?

A bit behind with the Merc PU? Behind who? Haas? Even Newey thinks once he sorts the chassis out it will be a high midfield one at best. This is not the goal everyone wants to hear. Honda could appear with another 100hp in Miami and we'd still be depressed at the result. And this is entirely my point.

[Badger]

Huh? It's extremely evident they are the furthest behind. I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would disagree with that evaluation. But there is a difference between being the lowest performing PU (see Renault PU the last 4 years) and also being the "only reason" for a teams poor performance and mishaps. That is a distinction that is getting lost and yet it's one of the most important things for any of us to maybe comprehend here. You could put a Merc in the back of this car and we'd still be challenging a Haas. That is still unacceptable for the size and capability Aston has at the moment.

They are much further adrift than what Renault was. Just to put it in perspective, Renault was estimated to be down about 15-20 HP. In your previous post you said honda is only down 50HP. (its actually more) but thats 3 times worse than Renault was.

No one has said Aston doesnt have problems. But they have been preoccupied with making the car runnable on weekends. I.E fixing the vibration problems before anything else can be addressed. If they had a Merc engine in the back, they would have started a bit behind but there is a good chance they would have caught up mid season. Instead they are unlikely to be competitive for at least 2 years. Im fairly certain once the engine is at least usable, their aero will improve drastically within the season.

Renault were 30 down. Publicly claiming as such.

Those claims were made when Renault was lobbying for an exception to the engine freeze. They likely inflated their deficit to strengthen their case, but no one bought it and the exception was never granted.

As for Honda they are much farther behind than that, probably in the 60-80 hp range, which is even worse than it looks when you realise the ICE is 35% weaker now. It would be more like a 100 hp deficit under the previous engine formula.

[max_speed]

with honda, there are always promises and No delivery. lets revisit my message after monday, nothing will change. they shudnt be in F1 (does not belong to top class)

[Darth-Piekus]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-c ... xtra-help/

While some fans and certain media outlets continue to make excuses for Honda and downplay how bad their PU is, rival manufactures and FIA are thinking about changing the rules to help Honda even more than what is already allowed under ADUO. This should make it very clear where they stand when they are not even seen as a threat in the future by their competitors.

can you imagine what would happen if ferrari or merc delivered a PU like this. especially ferrari would get crucified by their fans and competition, and the whole country of italy. honda gets a pass like no other. their fans hold them in mythical regard regardless of what they do. but if it helps them get a decent PU before both alonso and newey retire, ill take it.

You could argue that with Mclaren it was their first time but now both Honda and its fans have no excuses for that disgraceful performance. Not when you are so many years in F1, solved all the previous problems and the new engine is much simpler than the Hybrid Turbos of 2014-2025.

[Jambier]

To summarize:

- they have done some full testing
- they are starting to implement fixes

Goal is to finish the races, remove vibrations, improve drivability

So 0 performance upgrade.
Also I’m keeping the same opinion that Honda will not be able to use ADUO, they will do a new one for 2027 and that’s it

Based on what? The perfromance is dreadful. The can only make a "new one" for 2027 only with ADUO to begin with...
Makes sense to put on the track whatever they accomplished on the final races to test and verify. Then keep developing to the other deadline of March 1.

Because for instance RBPT declared that even if they had ADUO on the first evaluation, they won't be able to use it.
Upgrades need time, they have a limited number of engines allowed this year etc...

For now Honda is working on making the engine just work and remove vibration.
If they can do that, maybe they will focus on performance for the second ADUO evaluation.

And even there, maybe it would be better to focus the resources on the 27' engine

[Jambier]

On top of RBPT, even Ferrari that have a much larger engine department than Honda, and currently no issue, declared that an upgraded engine (with ADUO) cannot be introduced before end of july at best (Hungary)

So I think it is more likely to be introduced after the summer break in Netherlands

[diffuser]

On top of RBPT, even Ferrari that have a much larger engine department than Honda, and currently no issue, declared that an upgraded engine (with ADUO) cannot be introduced before end of july at best (Hungary)

So I think it is more likely to be introduced after the summer break in Netherlands

You know there is a seperate $ CAP on the PU side as well?

[Jambier]

On top of RBPT, even Ferrari that have a much larger engine department than Honda, and currently no issue, declared that an upgraded engine (with ADUO) cannot be introduced before end of july at best (Hungary)

So I think it is more likely to be introduced after the summer break in Netherlands

You know there is a seperate $ CAP on the PU side as well?

I've read somewhere that the CAP is not the issue but more the actual manpower / Size of HONDA PU team

[diffuser]

On top of RBPT, even Ferrari that have a much larger engine department than Honda, and currently no issue, declared that an upgraded engine (with ADUO) cannot be introduced before end of july at best (Hungary)

So I think it is more likely to be introduced after the summer break in Netherlands

You know there is a seperate $ CAP on the PU side as well?

I've read somewhere that the CAP is not the issue but more the actual manpower / Size of HONDA PU team

What has been written about the manpower of Honda is that they are inexperienced, something like 65% of the team that built the previous gen F1 PU didn't return. They've also said that they've increased that experience by bring people from Honda MotoGP and some of the previous Gen guys starting in March.

But we're going round in circles. This isn't news. It's been talked about in these pages at nauseum.

[GhostF1]

On top of RBPT, even Ferrari that have a much larger engine department than Honda, and currently no issue, declared that an upgraded engine (with ADUO) cannot be introduced before end of july at best (Hungary)

So I think it is more likely to be introduced after the summer break in Netherlands

You know there is a seperate $ CAP on the PU side as well?

I've read somewhere that the CAP is not the issue but more the actual manpower / Size of HONDA PU team

Honda have said the cap is a restriction where before, they could just spend the money to catch up and develop when it was necessary. Now they can't do that and have to be measured with where they spend the money and dyno hours, could slow their development speed fairly noticeably, which is a concern. But yes they did say they didn't have a full team on this PU but that they do now and have a large portion of the original dev team of the previous PU back on the team.

"with honda, there are always promises and No delivery"

This is a wild quote. You could argue in the last regs they were the only manufacturer who delivered noticeable gains while staying measured. Ferrari and Renault were full of hot air for years, publicly claiming they have the best PU when they clearly didn't and never ended up delivering a top 2 engine in the previous 5 years. The '21 PU was a huge leap forward and all Honda said about it at the time was "this is an all new engine so we can try and catch up", no bold claims about its potential. But as we saw, from that, a front running PU for the following 5 years was born.

[diffuser]

You know there is a seperate $ CAP on the PU side as well?

I've read somewhere that the CAP is not the issue but more the actual manpower / Size of HONDA PU team

Honda have said the cap is a restriction where before, they could just spend the money to catch up and develop when it was necessary. Now they can't do that and have to be measured with where they spend the money and dyno hours, could slow their development speed fairly noticeably, which is a concern. But yes they did say they didn't have a full team on this PU but that they do now and have a large portion of the original dev team of the previous PU back on the team.

"with honda, there are always promises and No delivery"

This is a wild quote. You could argue in the last regs they were the only manufacturer who delivered noticeable gains while staying measured. Ferrari and Renault were full of hot air for years, publicly claiming they have the best PU when they clearly didn't and never ended up delivering a top 2 engine in the previous 5 years. The '21 PU was a huge leap forward and all Honda said about it at the time was "this is an all new engine so we can try and catch up", no bold claims about its potential. But as we saw, from that, a front running PU for the following 5 years was born.

You need to go all the way back to 2008 to find a PU manufacturer in F1, that isn't Honda or Merc, and is still making PUs that have Powered a championships. That says something about who is delivering and who is not.

[GoranF1]

Steering column update dropped because Honda fixed vibration in its core.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what ... a-changes/

[FNTC]

That was not raced, though, and is understood to not be on the car in Miami because the progress made in engine development should mean it is not necessary. It was a way of treating the symptoms and what Honda has introduced for Miami should directly address the cause.

“We have worked on a large package to reduce the vibrations - at the source, but also in terms of mitigation to all the systems, including the driver,” said Aston Martin chief trackside officer Mike Krack.

Having a chassis at Sakura helped with this, as Honda could examine the engine on the dyno while connected to the car itself, with more sensors fitted giving them more to monitor than is possible when the car runs on track in reality.

It also included Orihara sitting in the car during some of the testing to experience the vibrations first-hand.

“We found some good progress on vibrations,” said Orihara. “Then we introduced the countermeasures into this event.

“We found good progress on the engine's battery side, and also we can see some good progress on vibrations for the driver.

“So we are interested to see how that works here.”

Sounds promising. Let's see...

[FNTC]