Silly season 2016

[Jonnycraig]

You would have a point if Renault had used up all its tokens and their competitors hadn't. The case is that Renault had/has a handful of unused tokens left, what is, in my view, an inability to develop their engine. Mercedes on the other hand can develop their engine further, but can't because they are out of tokens.

without the token system and when Mercedes would be allowed to start every race with a fresh engine, the renault cars would be lapt after ten laps....

Renault have quite understandably given up on their engine now. What's the point of spending a fortune upgrading an engine that likely won't ever be used as RB have no interest in taking grid penalties to develop their engine for them now.

Merc would still only be able to introduce 5 new interants of the engine per season, and as we have seen from Ferrari's gains over the season, Mercedes are far closer to the ceiling of development than Ferrari or Renault are.

[WaikeCU]

But all drivers put different strains on the engine in their driving style. Just look at the last race, Hamilton was avoiding kerbs so he didnt get and spikes in the RPM and lifting early to save the engine. F1 has always been like this, so I dont see the need to change. Driver have an awful lot of influence on engine life, so I say if the engine blows , the Team and Driver are penalised. Everyone is part of the team.

But that's not the fastest way to get to the finish. It's due to multiple restrictions that F1 this day have become like that. Drivers and teams have become smarter, strategic to define the best way to race. It's not by putting the hammer down lap after lap.

[TAG]

Renault have quite understandably given up on their engine now. What's the point of spending a fortune upgrading an engine that likely won't ever be used as RB have no interest in taking grid penalties to develop their engine for them now.

Merc would still only be able to introduce 5 new interants of the engine per season, and as we have seen from Ferrari's gains over the season, Mercedes are far closer to the ceiling of development than Ferrari or Renault are.

That's one way to put it but it's not a fair categorization or assessment by any means. Renault's intent from the beginning of the season was to hold off on using their tokens so they could combing 2015 and 2016 tokens in a major redevelopment push for the 2016 engine. Red Bull was categorically against that but ultimately had no say hence where the chips fell on both sides.

I believe that Renault will be next year's dark hose in terms of engine. We'll have to wait and see but it's clear they have a long term plan. Whether they implement it or not remains to be seen. However I'm sure Bernie will bend over backwards to assure the sport doesn't become a two engine formula next year.

But that's not the fastest way to get to the finish. .

It's never about the fastest way to get to the finish, it's about being in front at the finish with the least amount of effort or expenditure. It works pretty well in the natural world as well.

[PlatinumZealot]

You would have a point if Renault had used up all its tokens and their competitors hadn't. The case is that Renault had/has a handful of unused tokens left, what is, in my view, an inability to develop their engine. Mercedes on the other hand can develop their engine further, but can't because they are out of tokens.

without the token system and when Mercedes would be allowed to start every race with a fresh engine, the renault cars would be lapt after ten laps....

Renault have quite understandably given up on their engine now. What's the point of spending a fortune upgrading an engine that likely won't ever be used as RB have no interest in taking grid penalties to develop their engine for them now.

Merc would still only be able to introduce 5 new interants of the engine per season, and as we have seen from Ferrari's gains over the season, Mercedes are far closer to the ceiling of development than Ferrari or Renault are.

Good point.
It will be better for Renault to freeze the engine or even develop it at less expensive pace and market the engine to mid-fielders and start ups who want an affordable engine. The engine might also be available to LMP1 teams too.

[Jonnycraig]

Renault have quite understandably given up on their engine now. What's the point of spending a fortune upgrading an engine that likely won't ever be used as RB have no interest in taking grid penalties to develop their engine for them now.

Merc would still only be able to introduce 5 new interants of the engine per season, and as we have seen from Ferrari's gains over the season, Mercedes are far closer to the ceiling of development than Ferrari or Renault are.

That's one way to put it but it's not a fair categorization or assessment by any means. Renault's intent from the beginning of the season was to hold off on using their tokens so they could combing 2015 and 2016 tokens in a major redevelopment push for the 2016 engine. Red Bull was categorically against that but ultimately had no say hence where the chips fell on both sides.

I believe that Renault will be next year's dark hose in terms of engine. We'll have to wait and see but it's clear they have a long term plan. Whether they implement it or not remains to be seen. However I'm sure Bernie will bend over backwards to assure the sport doesn't become a two engine formula next year.

Renault would have to have a team to supply to be on the grid.

[TAG]

Don't think Bernie would allow a team like Lotus to disappear, we're likely not going to see first hand all of the negotiations taking place but it's likely that Renault know they've got the leverage at the moment and will hold Bernie to "save" Lotus allowing Renault to come in and reap the low cost to an F1 team entry along with some major concessions with FOM appropriate blessings to the deal.

Stay tuned... I think we'll find out soon enough.

[Jonnycraig]

Don't think Bernie would allow a team like Lotus to disappear, we're likely not going to see first hand all of the negotiations taking place but it's likely that Renault know they've got the leverage at the moment and will hold Bernie to "save" Lotus allowing Renault to come in and reap the low cost to an F1 team entry along with some major concessions with FOM appropriate blessings to the deal.

Stay tuned... I think we'll find out soon enough.

Bernie will happily let them go as he can then charge an admission fee to a new team..

With the level of debt racked up by Genii, Bernie certainly won't save them first hand, and Renault know full well that they can come in for 2017, with a brand new engine, full year working in the tweaked regs and pick up the scraps of 'Lotus' for pennies on the pound.

[ChrisF1]

Bernie wouldn't let them go to charge for a new team - there aren't any new teams out there, the FIA just rejected two applications in their last tender.

[Jonnycraig]

Bernie wouldn't let them go to charge for a new team - there aren't any new teams out there, the FIA just rejected two applications in their last tender.

He can charge Renault for a 2017 entry.

Amus claim that Renault will fund a Lotus-Merc entry next season before entering as Renault with a brand new PU for 2017.

[wickedz50]

Bernie wouldn't let them go to charge for a new team - there aren't any new teams out there, the FIA just rejected two applications in their last tender.

He can charge Renault for a 2017 entry.

Amus claim that Renault will fund a Lotus-Merc entry next season before entering as Renault with a brand new PU for 2017.

Is it not important at this moment that Renault focuses completely on their engine performance rather than to bid or takeover Lotus ? the attitude currently they are showing is that their current engine is way better that what the world thinks. Renault interest in F1 is purely for promotion and marketing and no passion exists to bring results. They should either change the rules to produce a competitive engine for F1 or just wrap up their F1 dreams and go develop and improve road cars.

Bernie the showman needs to pull some rabbit out of his hat to keep the F1 show running any longer. There is a substantial drop in TV viewership and live audience since the V6 was introduced along with token business and testing ban. He wanted to do some good and it turned out bad in the context of the financial crisis and the sport is losing charm.

[Blackout]

Bernie wouldn't let them go to charge for a new team - there aren't any new teams out there, the FIA just rejected two applications in their last tender.

He can charge Renault for a 2017 entry.

Amus claim that Renault will fund a Lotus-Merc entry next season before entering as Renault with a brand new PU for 2017.

Where? thx

[TAG]

So here's the silly season topic for the remainder of the year...

VW plans to buy Red Bull. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34297046

So we know how prophetic Eddie Jordan was with the Ross Brawn Mercedes rumors followed by the Lewis Hamilton Mercedes rumors. Eddie Jordan isn't a prophet, he's just got close ties to someone very very very close to Ross if not the man himself.

So last year rumor had it that Eddie Jordan had floated the idea of Ross Brawn coming back into the sport to manage the VW team entry and now this. Silly season overdrive indeed.

[iotar__]

So here's the silly season topic for the remainder of the year...
VW plans to buy Red Bull. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34297046

- Funny how it surfaced five minutes after Red Bull's quit threats over engines. Then quit away.
- Do they even know '18 engine rules? If current hybrids are staying I thought Red Bull hated them and needed noise and stuff. Aren't they planning some 1000 HP UFO on wheels?
- So if Honda was one season late, didn't get tokens and had 4 engines rule initially what will it mean for VW-RB? First and final version competing with units raced and developed for four years, how?

[Jonnycraig]

Seems to be a lot of talk that Renault have signed to fund Lotus-Merc next season and will re-enter in 2017.

Few whispers of a Vergne-Maldonado line up.

*edit* Grosjean agreed to join Haas allegedly with Ferrari keen to keep an eye on his data for 2017.

[iotar__]

Seems to be a lot of talk that Renault have signed to fund Lotus-Merc next season and will re-enter in 2017.

Few whispers of a Vergne-Maldonado line up.

*edit* Grosjean agreed to join Haas allegedly with Ferrari keen to keep an eye on his data for 2017.

Neither whisper makes sense to me:
- where will they be developing their engine after Red Bull split? Dyno and simulators?

- Unless a bulletproof contract with Ferrari for 2017 is attached (signed and 20 million of compensation) driving for Haas means absolutely nothing and if Grosjean doesn't know it he's not smart. New backmarker team with only competition in Marussia at the end of grid is some kind of benchmark for Ferrari seat but 4 previous season are not?

Ferrari bosses have all the data in the world about their own drivers, bunch of people from Lotus and are making one bad decision after another. Where was Haas data when they overpaid Vettel, kept Raikkonen to make him look good (and marketing) or when got stuck on Bottas?

Edit: Colour me surprised AMuS seems to confirm the rumours. Renault's comeback. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 80972.html
Maldo staying and Grosjean leaves? Then they start in the dumbest way, remove one of few remaining assets, keep bunch of incompetent people that drove the team into current position, add ideas like keeping Mercedes engine and some yet unclear management changes: Prost, Vasseur, Abiteboul. I don't see a long trail of success behind them. So Renault will be bankrolling Mercedes engines because current technical team can't make an engine adjustments like Red Bull? Weird but we'll see, it's their money to waste.