2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[F1NAC]

Charles finished very far off him I don't understand why

Apparently it was cooling issues according to some who went on and listened his team radio

[Vanja #66]

In Zandvoort he made a mistake in quali and a racing incident with Piastri which compromised his race (bad luck in this case but still), and in Monza he actually overtook Sainz, but locked up a bit and lost the position in the following corner. Was just a bit too clumsy. It doesn't surprise me, considering how much Leclerc hates this car. He is always on the limit.

Piastri hit him on the outside while they exited a chicane, nothing Leclerc could do. As for the racing with Sainz in Monza a) that's a regular lockup after late braking (when you front inside wheel loses traction when you start turning in), not a mistake, b) Sainz defended in della Rogia by locking up and forcing them both wide. The only reason race direction didn't ask him to return position is because it was 2 Ferraris fighting in Italy.

[JPower]

Mark Hughes had an article regarding the race from Ferrari's side but I thought this was most interesting...

There was a test at the mid-point of the season where Sainz finally got the team to agree to try a set-up direction he’d been pushing for ever since first driving the SF-23 and its nervy rear end. Because it seemed to have a built-in aerodynamic inconsistency at the rear, Sainz suggested engineering in a false understeer balance so that he could at least have confidence to push. It worked for him – and for the car.

For Leclerc, not so much. “I’m not completely comfortable with the car at the moment,” he said in Singapore. “A bit too much understeer for my liking and I struggle to drive around it. Because of the unpredictability of the car, I cannot have the oversteer that I want. Because of this rear-end unpredictability we cannot run with a lot of front because then whenever you have a snap, you lose a lot of grip from the car and it’s just very difficult to manage. It’s not that it’s an understeery car but you have to put understeer in to make it predictable.”

I think this pushes back against the idea that this car was "designed" to understeer(especially regarding baselesss conspiracy theory around being made specifically for Sainz). It just missed its design targets. I expect a "pointier" car to return for 2024 or at least a car with a wider setup window. This is why Cardile hinted that the entire rear would need redesigning.

It also speaks to Sainz's value to the team that he was able to provide valuable feedback.

I expect Vasseur and Vigna to continue this lineup going forward despite what people on here and elsewhere think. One thing I think Ferrari is good at, is holding on to their driver lineups. Sainz getting a few wins and poles under his belt has only helped, especially if Ferrari has the opportunity to contend more often next year.

[Xyz22]

Mark Hughes had an article regarding the race from Ferrari's side but I thought this was most interesting...

There was a test at the mid-point of the season where Sainz finally got the team to agree to try a set-up direction he’d been pushing for ever since first driving the SF-23 and its nervy rear end. Because it seemed to have a built-in aerodynamic inconsistency at the rear, Sainz suggested engineering in a false understeer balance so that he could at least have confidence to push. It worked for him – and for the car.

For Leclerc, not so much. “I’m not completely comfortable with the car at the moment,” he said in Singapore. “A bit too much understeer for my liking and I struggle to drive around it. Because of the unpredictability of the car, I cannot have the oversteer that I want. Because of this rear-end unpredictability we cannot run with a lot of front because then whenever you have a snap, you lose a lot of grip from the car and it’s just very difficult to manage. It’s not that it’s an understeery car but you have to put understeer in to make it predictable.”

I think this pushes back against the idea that this car was "designed" to understeer(especially regarding baselesss conspiracy theory around being made specifically for Sainz). It just missed its design targets. I expect a "pointier" car to return for 2024 or at least a car with a wider setup window. This is why Cardile hinted that the entire rear would need redesigning.

It also speaks to Sainz's value to the team that he was able to provide valuable feedback.

I expect Vasseur and Vigna to continue this lineup going forward despite what people on here and elsewhere think. One thing I think Ferrari is good at, is holding on to their driver lineups. Sainz getting a few wins and poles under his belt has only helped, especially if Ferrari has the opportunity to contend more often next year.

The base assumption of this article is completely wrong. The car has been suffering from massive understeer since the first testing session, with the drivers struggling to hit apexes even in a track like Bahrein. It has been absolutely clear from onboards and telemetry, and reported multiple times by journalists "close" to the team.

Hughes has also made up comments by himself and mixed them with Charles actual statements. I can't comment on the new setup discovered by Sainz. If it made the car better overall then he did a good job, but it didn't seem so in Zandvoort.

[JPower]

The base assumption of this article is completely wrong. The car has been suffering from massive understeer since the first testing session, with the drivers struggling to hit apexes even in a track like Bahrein. It has been absolutely clear from onboards and telemetry, and reported multiple times by journalists "close" to the team.

Hughes has also made up comments by himself and mixed them with Charles actual statements. I can't comment on the new setup discovered by Sainz. If it made the car better overall then he did a good job, but it didn't seem so in Zandvoort.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

If you have proof he made the quotes up, it seems like it would be a pretty big breach of journalistic conduct, no?

[Xyz22]

The base assumption of this article is completely wrong. The car has been suffering from massive understeer since the first testing session, with the drivers struggling to hit apexes even in a track like Bahrein. It has been absolutely clear from onboards and telemetry, and reported multiple times by journalists "close" to the team.

Hughes has also made up comments by himself and mixed them with Charles actual statements. I can't comment on the new setup discovered by Sainz. If it made the car better overall then he did a good job, but it didn't seem so in Zandvoort.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

If you have proof he made the quotes up, it seems like it would be a pretty big breach of journalistic conduct, no?

"Because of this rear-end unpredictability we cannot run with a lot of front because then whenever you have a snap, you lose a lot of grip from the car and it’s just very difficult to manage. It’s not that it’s an understeery car but you have to put understeer in to make it predictable"

When did Leclerc say this? Hughes had an exclusive interview with him? I can't recall Leclerc say that at all.
If someone provides a source i'll take the blame of assuming Hughes made it up.

[JPower]

"Because of this rear-end unpredictability we cannot run with a lot of front because then whenever you have a snap, you lose a lot of grip from the car and it’s just very difficult to manage. It’s not that it’s an understeery car but you have to put understeer in to make it predictable"

When did Leclerc say this? Hughes had an exclusive interview with him? I can't recall Leclerc say that at all.
If someone provides a source i'll take the blame of assuming Hughes made it up.

Hughes is the source.

I don't think he has a reason to falsify a driver's quote. Would be pretty easy to get called out and/or lose reputation because of it.

[AR3-GP]

The phrasing matches the way Leclerc speaks in English.

[Xyz22]

There is another thing that doesn't add up. Hughes says this balance shift is the reason Leclerc has been struggling but Leclerc, outside a few weekends, has been struggling since the start of the season even in tracks where he has always been super quick like Spain.


Can also someone explain to me how a car with apparently a terrible rear end has been very competitive in tracks where traction is key (Austria, Bahrein, Monza, Singapore, Baku) ?

[Spoutnik]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1703 ... 13005?s=20

[AR3-GP]

https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1703 ... 13005?s=20

This makes much more sense

[astralx]

There is another thing that doesn't add up. Hughes says this balance shift is the reason Leclerc has been struggling but Leclerc, outside a few weekends, has been struggling since the start of the season even in tracks where he has always been super quick like Spain.


Can also someone explain to me how a car with apparently a terrible rear end has been very competitive in tracks where traction is key (Austria, Bahrein, Monza, Singapore, Baku) ?

terrible balance mainly in long radius corners and fast direction changes ( Barcelona, Silverstone....) understeer and suddenly quick snap oversteer...traction out of slow 90º corners is not the problem...problem is when the car turns, aero is unstable,making also the tyres last shorter.... in 90 corners this is problem too, but for " shorter time"...sorry for my bad english

[Xyz22]

There is another thing that doesn't add up. Hughes says this balance shift is the reason Leclerc has been struggling but Leclerc, outside a few weekends, has been struggling since the start of the season even in tracks where he has always been super quick like Spain.


Can also someone explain to me how a car with apparently a terrible rear end has been very competitive in tracks where traction is key (Austria, Bahrein, Monza, Singapore, Baku) ?

terrible balance mainly in long radius corners and fast direction changes ( Barcelona, Silverstone....) understeer and suddenly quick snap oversteer...traction out of slow 90º corners is not the problem...problem is when the car turns, aero is unstable,making also the tyres last shorter.... in 90 corners this is problem too, but for " shorter time"...sorry for my bad english

Yeah, but good traction requires a good rear end, no?

[scuderiabrandon]

There is another thing that doesn't add up. Hughes says this balance shift is the reason Leclerc has been struggling but Leclerc, outside a few weekends, has been struggling since the start of the season even in tracks where he has always been super quick like Spain.


Can also someone explain to me how a car with apparently a terrible rear end has been very competitive in tracks where traction is key (Austria, Bahrein, Monza, Singapore, Baku) ?

terrible balance mainly in long radius corners and fast direction changes ( Barcelona, Silverstone....) understeer and suddenly quick snap oversteer...traction out of slow 90º corners is not the problem...problem is when the car turns, aero is unstable,making also the tyres last shorter.... in 90 corners this is problem too, but for " shorter time"...sorry for my bad english

Yeah, but good traction requires a good rear end, no?

Traction isn't the issue. Braking and accelerating in a straight line is a strength of the SF-23. I would even go as far as to say the best on the grid. Just look at the tracks we are good at.

The front is the major limitation for Leclerc specifically (even though the gap him and SAI are still pretty close). I personally believe it also has a major effect on our front tyre degradation.

The rear end instability starts when the car goes into a corner, particularly the larger radius, higher speed corners, where you are spending more time in yaw oppose to the 90deg turns. Also the issues we had earlier with dynamic ride height caused cross winds to effect floor performance too much.

I believe the inwash concept at the rear corner of the SP is partially to blame for this. The front tyre wake that stagnates on the fac eof the rear tyre (thanks to the outwashing done by the fences, front wing, SP undercut) can too easily be diverted into the coke bottle area when in yaw or with cross winds. This dirty air migrating into a very important area causes a drastic loss in rear downforce hence the instabilities in the large radius corners when you are spending more time in yaw. I particularly like the Mercedes solution they brought to Spa. The potential outwash they can create at the rear of the SP will feed floor edge devices and manage front tyre wake in yaw.

Too me this makes sense. I hope they move away from this if it is the case. Alfa Romeo, the only other team to have done this has moved away at Singapore. Ferrari remains the only team to have inwashing geomtery at the rear corner now. I think it is becoming clear.

[astralx]

There is another thing that doesn't add up. Hughes says this balance shift is the reason Leclerc has been struggling but Leclerc, outside a few weekends, has been struggling since the start of the season even in tracks where he has always been super quick like Spain.


Can also someone explain to me how a car with apparently a terrible rear end has been very competitive in tracks where traction is key (Austria, Bahrein, Monza, Singapore, Baku) ?

terrible balance mainly in long radius corners and fast direction changes ( Barcelona, Silverstone....) understeer and suddenly quick snap oversteer...traction out of slow 90º corners is not the problem...problem is when the car turns, aero is unstable,making also the tyres last shorter.... in 90 corners this is problem too, but for " shorter time"...sorry for my bad english

Yeah, but good traction requires a good rear end, no?

rear end mechanical and aero with wheels straight isnt problem ... aero when you turn is the achilles heel... traction is mostly whit wheels straight.....