2014/15 Silly Season

[mikeerfol]

PitLaneTalk 3hours ago. Not directly but that Button is set to retain his seat!

PitLaneTalk again huh.. Does anyone know how reliable they are regarding the past?

[Phil]

Wow. Though, i guess not that surprising if true. While i dont think that McLaren will produce a much better car next year, i think the main point is that it's a new environment and i suspect a short term commitment. If i am to guess, it would be a 1+1 year deal. That would give the option to assess the situation new beyond 2016. If Hamilton or Rosberg leave, or the situation at RedBull changes, it may be easier to move on than to commit to a new longterm Ferrari deal and be stuck there...?

[mikeerfol]

Regarding Alonso to McLaren
https://twitter.com/pitlanetalk/status/ ... 7053640704

[Phil]

If accurate, i also find this highly interesting:

According to Autobild's Bianca Garloff, Fernando Alonso has been rejected by both Red Bull and Mercedes.

Would seem that despite the heated fight between Hamilton and Rosberg, they are still commited to both their drivers.

[Shrieker]

Also, it would be daft on Ferrari's part if they're forced to give Alonso a raise to retain him, but aren't. He's literally keeping them afloat atm.

[henra]

Wow. Though, i guess not that surprising if true. While i dont think that McLaren will produce a much better car next year, i think the main point is that it's a new environment and i suspect a short term commitment.

One can definitely have the impression that the relationship Alonso - Ferrari has worn out a bit.
Since Motivation is one of the most important success factors in F1 (cue Raikkonen and Vettel to some extent) change can have a Quality all of its own.
I wouldn't be too surprised, seeing how the seemingly risky choice of moving from the then serious Championship contender McLaren to Merc has paid off for Hamilton not so Long ago. Alonso might be tempted to pull off a similar stunt after 5 years of increasing woes and decreasing chances to win at Ferrari.

[henra]

Would seem that despite the heated fight between Hamilton and Rosberg, they are still commited to both their drivers.

Why shouldn't they?
Hamilton is performing well and compared to a theoretical pairing Hamilton - Alonso the recent atmospheric disturbances in the Merc Team will look like a mild summer breeze compared to a level 5 Hurricane...

[Phil]

Also, it would be daft on Ferrari's part if they're forced to give Alonso a raise to retain him, but aren't. He's literally keeping them afloat atm.

True. Though i do wonder if Ferrari might perform better as a whole without Alonso. I've always wondered if Alonso is that good, that he performs leaps and bound better than his team-mate(s) or if perhaps the nature of his persona means that the team as a whole evolve around him to such a degree that it makes it more difficult for their team-mate to compete and drive at their potential. Massa comes to mind, now to some degree Kimi.

No question, Alonso is a brilliant driver. But it's rare that his team mates at Ferrari seem to drive at their potential. Massa showed sparks of his ability in 2010, Kimi too from time to time, but on the whole, they just seem to struggle.

The exception to this seems to be Alonso and Hamilton while both were at McLaren, but perhaps McLaren isnt comparable because of their equalty ethos and modular structure.

So... If Alonso leaves - yes, they'll be losing a brilliant driver for sure, but maybe as a team, it might do them well too....?

[zeph]

I have been an Alonso fan since he ended the Schumacher-era, but I have to admit I doubt he will ever win another WDC.

It is all down to bad karma, I suppose. He really reacted poorly to Hamilton's challenge in 2007, and he ignored an offer from RBR to come drive for them in 2008. Talking about missed opportunities! I can completely understand why RBR and Mercedes don't want him, they have younger drivers who are all doing incredibly well, so why get an older driver who is reputed to be a bit of a prima donna?

If the rumors are true, I sort of hope that McLaren and Alonso will do it right this time, and atone for their previously mutually destructive relationship with wins and perhaps even a fight for the WDC. Don't count Button out, though! If he has a good car, he may just be quick enough to frustrate Alonso.

Of course, with Alonso's luck/karma, if he were to leave, Ferrari is set to have a winning car next year with Raikkonen bagging his second crown by Monza.

Gardening leave or not, I don't doubt Prodromou has been hard at work on the 2015 car for while already. And didn't Mercedes complain that Honda had an unfair advantage as they could dissect McLaren's engines?

[Bob Brown]

The exception to this seems to be Alonso and Hamilton while both were at McLaren, but perhaps McLaren isnt comparable because of their equalty ethos and modular structure.

So... If Alonso leaves - yes, they'll be losing a brilliant driver for sure, but maybe as a team, it might do them well too....?

I have a similar sentiment as well. McLaren has always designed a neutral car and then let the drivers drive it and just do setup to their own driving styles from what I've read over the past decades. The teams (except Mclaren and possibly Minardi) that Alonso was on have always made the car catered towards one person and just hope that driver # 2 does just enough for the constructor's trophy.

[FW17]

^^^^

I guess you are new to F1 or with short memory. 2005 > MP4-20 was designed for Kimi's style which was impossible for Montoya to adopt to. McLaren then made car with complete different setup for Montoya which included different front suspension and wishbones.

[alexx_88]

One thing has not been thrown into this debate: maybe Mclaren - Honda agreed to the performance clauses that Ferrari refused, thus making the move a bit less risky for Alonso?

Ferrari knew that Mclaren seemed like a very risky choice at this point and that RB and Merc are closed for 2015 and tried to use that fear to keep Alonso in their cars until retirement. This was the only thing they could do since they probably realize they are not going to challenge for the WCC so soon after a big reshuffling as this year. They just fired their engine department manager two months ago and started making hirings in the hybrid department. It will take time, thus the pressure of having the same driver for the next 4-5 years. Imagine being one year from now, Alonso still at Ferrari, with Mclaren - Honda proven as a partnership on the rise and with Vettel and Lewis' contracts running out and possibly Kimi retiring. You'd have two seats at Mclaren and Ferrari and one at RB and Mercedes with only three top drivers to fill them. A very bad position to be in as a team when there's a distinct chance that you'd be the last of the pack of four at that point. In that regard, having the negotiation this year was a no-brainer for Ferrari, they get to pick first for 2016, having both Hamilton and Vettel as options.

At the same time, the changes that Ferrari has undergone this year, already happened at Mclaren, so, if anything, Mclaren may be a year ahead. Also, I wouldn't read too much in their performance this year, the fact is that Mercedes only supplied them with the latest hardware, but the software of the engine is miles behind from what the works team has. As a consequence, Mclaren's engine is an unknown quantity.

[Kiril Varbanov]

I don't believe in bad karma, to be honest, but I do believe in dedicated work and constant push. This is what Alonso believes in, too, apparently, but the team is simply unable to provide him with a winning car - for variety of reasons. Some of them are believed to be gone now, but time will tell.
I underline on 'winning' and not 'dominant', as these are different things. While all this is somewhat logical and is a result of what has or hasn't been done, I'm absolutely delighted to have Honda back - this is shuffling game move.

Even if Mclaren don't go for Alonso, I definitely feel we have too much rules on the engine side, as well as cars development. We talk more about hypothetical stuff, as opposed to actual features on the car and this is bad.

On topic - I'm sure that very soon we shall hear what the future holds for 2015, but beyond that, I can certainly see Hamilton at Ferrari and Alonso at Mclaren. It would seem that today's F1 contracts and media press releases don't mean much.

[CBeck113]

It always comes down to what they don't say to help find the truth. Ferrari has only said that Alonso has a contract for next year, but that isn't the same as "Alonso will drive the Ferrari next year". It is difficult finding the whole truth behind the comments and press releases, and what gets left out of the comments fuels the rumors. Since there are only five races left and Ferrari has not made a definite statement do date, I do now believe the rumors that Fred is done after this season, and that McLaren will be the only team with an open seat that could afford him. On the positive side, that'll be about 50€mil extra to put into the car next year if they hire Bianchi (Hulk would be a bit more expensive, as would Grosjean...but Kimi/Gros again? Kind of doubt it). That itself could mean alot, so I don't think it would be a mistake for Ferrari to let him go. He is in my eyes the best driver on the grid, but he's not necessary to win the title...just makes it a bit easier when the design isn't the best too.

[Phil]

What about the sponsorship with Santander? Wouldn't they follow him to McLaren? That must be quite a substantial amount of money... Or are they tied to Ferrari regardless where Alonso moves?