2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[venkyhere]

Does anyone think ferrari will suffer from the new TD this weekend?

There is so much written/video-ed/audio-ed about this "TD18 for Barcelona GP" and how it's a 'game changer' , how teams are going to 'suffer' etc etc, they are all clickbaits where incongruous content is being stuffed into the reader/viewer's face.

What is this really ? The front wing flexes (more in some cars, less in others) and the advantage that this offers is - as speeds go higher and higher, the more the wing 'bends' downward (laterally and longitudinally) - the lesser the drag, the lesser the front downforce ; compared to the situation where the front wing is 100% rigid.
It's obvious, the advantage of lesser drag. When is less front downforce useful ? It's useful in a straight line and in high speed long corners, where it's preferable to have the center of pressure on the car to shift rearwards, as any 'strong bite' from the front tyres can produce snap oversteer on the car. The 'less intensely' the front tyres jam into the tarmac in this situation, the 'more room for noise filtering' is there on small twitches in the steering from the vibrations transmitted through the drivers hands from a cockpit which has nil NVH damping. That's all there is to it, IMHO.

And even before this 2025 season started, during the winter break it was announced that all teams will get an "8 races worth preparation time" to correct their wings. Has there ever been a TD that is so much lenient ? I don't have any, in recent memory. All teams have had enough time to 'adapt' their wing and floor designs to 'accommodate' this TD18. I don't expect anyone to suffer a 'performance shocker' because of this TD. There might be slight increase in straightline drag (and hence top speed reduction) for many teams, but nothing more than that. Ferrari, who have had the 'least flexi' front wing of all, are hoping to cash in on their top-speed advantage, since even in the first 8 races, they have been amongst the bunch of cars with highest top speed.

Other than this, I don't think this TD18 is going to do anything. It would have, had it been imposed right from race1. But from the 9th race, this 'bomb' is already a diffused one.

I was under the impression that the primary motivation of the flexi wing was purely balance. The drag reduction imo is negligible. But I guess we can see in quali if the top speeds of certain cars are lower (though McLaren already has a low top speed anyway).

yes, same thing - setup for oversteery/neutral balance in slow/medium corners, as speed climbs in fast corners the wing will flex and make it neutral/understeery balance. In other words, flexing front wings = automatic balance changer, dynamically with speed.

[deadhead]

Do these wings affect top speed at all?

[bluechris]

Do these wings affect top speed at all?

Offcourse because they reduce drag as speed increases.
The point here is that when a wing is solid, it has specific downforce and a X top speed. Now a team here that needs more downforce, increases the wing degrees but looses in speed.
With flexy wings, you get the best from both world's, you can raise the degrees but you loose less in speed because the wing flexes.

Here imo Ferrari is in much better position than the other top teams with 2nd the RB. Both of them have the less flexy wings and from the start of the championship they tried to optimize their cars with no flex in their minds.

Either way, soon we will see, maybe not fully from Ferrari because of its other quirks but from RB is certain.

If i am true i buy a beer to everyone

[Luscion]

Seems like Ferrari dont think the TD will negatively impact them, also new floor possibly arriving in Canada or Austria, with the rear suspension in Silverstone

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10727394/

The Prancing Horse team is convinced of making a leap forward, because according to voices from the Racing Department, the aerodynamicists would have fully recovered the performance of the front wing that should have been lost with the more restrictive regulation."

The head of GeS does well not to make predictions, also because the most anticipated important technical innovations won't be seen in Catalunya, but are scheduled for later: the floor could arrive in Canada or Austria and the redesigned rear suspension at Silverstone. The feeling is that reaction times at the Prancing Horse are slower compared to the developments of other top teams and there would be those who have asked for an acceleration, so the staff led by Loic Serra is now under pressure

[DJ Downforce]

Seems like Ferrari dont think the TD will negatively impact them, also new floor possibly arriving in Canada or Austria, with the rear suspension in Silverstone

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10727394/

The Prancing Horse team is convinced of making a leap forward, because according to voices from the Racing Department, the aerodynamicists would have fully recovered the performance of the front wing that should have been lost with the more restrictive regulation."

The head of GeS does well not to make predictions, also because the most anticipated important technical innovations won't be seen in Catalunya, but are scheduled for later: the floor could arrive in Canada or Austria and the redesigned rear suspension at Silverstone. The feeling is that reaction times at the Prancing Horse are slower compared to the developments of other top teams and there would be those who have asked for an acceleration, so the staff led by Loic Serra is now under pressure

But I want it now

[f1316]

I was under the impression that the primary motivation of the flexi wing was purely balance. The drag reduction imo is negligible. But I guess we can see in quali if the top speeds of certain cars are lower (though McLaren already has a low top speed anyway).

Yes and the optimistic view here is that Ferrari showed in Monaco that when we don’t have to compromise balance through a range of different corner types - a thing made easier with flexi wings - the underlying platform is quite good. Leclerc has said that Ferrari have done a lot of work in preparation for this change (and you wonder if they may have decided to focus more on the 2/3 of the season after this change than the 1/3 before it?) so it ought to be an advantage for them when no teams are able to use the flexi wings tool to balance out their car.

[f1316]

Funny to think that we’re only 5 points from 2nd in the WCC. 2nd isn’t really that much different than 4th imo - unless you’re 1st, and that’s a long way off, it doesn’t really matter to me - but it does put into perspective that teams other than McLaren haven’t really done a better job than Ferrari. If you consider the disqualification in China, arguably Ferrari should be in 2nd.

Of course, Red Bull is a unique case - since Max is scoring so many of their points - but their constructors points are their constructors points and arguably you could put almost anyone in the second seat and they wouldn’t do any better than Yuki.

As much as I’m unsatisfied with this season, I do think this puts some of the doom mongering into perspective.

[Chuckjr]

Please don't post AI generated garbage here, particularly that made by "Grok". Think for yourself and do proper research.

Nothing about this post is true, which really does not happen that often on this forum

Kudos

Do we really have such a low bar for factual accuracy that we are now using AI as a source? We might as well rely on some drunk guy in a bar (although, to be fair, I'm doing the drunk guy a disservice with the comparison).

The shift to marketing happened on October 13, 2014 when Montezemolo left. His exit was driven by multiple factors, primarily a clash with Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne, who wanted to use the brand and alter the ethos of Ferrari F1. Montezemolo wanted a racing team, Marchionne wanted a merch franchise. You now understand the implications of that moment in time for Ferrari… Montezemolo added: "This is the end of an era and so I have decided to leave my position as Chairman after almost 23 marvelous and unforgettable years in addition to those spent at Enzo Ferrari’s side in the 1970s."
https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-re ... he%20Group.

Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA Group in the upcoming flotation on Wall Street. This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the Group…
Montezemolo clashed with Marchionne over Ferrari’s autonomy, production limits, and FCA’s stock market listing plans.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... steps-down
Luca di Montezemolo said: "Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA Group in the upcoming flotation on Wall Street.” This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the Group."

Montezemolo’s departure from Ferrari was a pivotal moment driven by a clash with Marchionne over strategy, compounded by the Formula 1 team’s poor performance and the impending FCA stock listing. It marked the end of an era for Ferrari, with lasting implications for its brand identity and racing legacy…
Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA group in the upcoming (listing) on Wall Street,'' Montezemolo said. ''This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the group. This is the end of an era."
At Fiat's last shareholder's meeting, it emerged that Montezemolo will be left off the board of the merged company. Current chairman John Elkann said the move was made to reflect the international composition of the new automaker.
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/motor ... he-company

The timing of the FCA stock listing suggests Montezemolo’s departure was partly orchestrated to align Ferrari with Marchionne’s vision, potentially at the cost of its racing heritage. Montezemolo’s later comments about Ferrari’s “lack of soul” and leadership issues post-2014 indicate ongoing tensions about the company’s direction…
“They will make Ferrari become American" Montezemolo
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2014/09 ... rican.html

[Xyz22]

Ferrari didn’t need a disaster from McLaren. Both cars were on par here.
You would have never expected Ferrari to fight for pole in Monaco. You’re still trying to make you look like the wise person. Or let me say it in your exaggerating style - “the wisest person in the history of this forum”.

I have been wrong many times.
Not this one though The cars were absolutely not at the same level, unless you don't have any clue of what you are talking about

Actually looking at the laps Norris made a significant mistake in turn 15-16, but even that wasn't enough to get pole. I reckon Leclerc could have lapped 0.2s quicker than Norris with the McL, maybe even 0.3s.
Piastri also didn't have a good final lap in Q3. His optimal best time would have been 0.132s quicker.

Leclerc could have gone faster too. He had traffic in his previous lap he said. In Monaco you gain confidence lap by lap and on no other track that’s a more important factor in order to prepare for your next and fastest lap.

It’s not hard to accept that the SF-25 was a very good car around Monaco. Try it.

I didn't say the SF 25 was terrible. I said we needed a disasterclass by McL drivers to be on pole.
Piastri had a shocking Q3. Norris made a mistake in his best lap but the McL39 was just too good. As a matter of fact Norris got the pole in the last two corners with tremendous turn in speed and especially traction. Gained 0.2s in those two corners which show the massive speed advantage provided by the McL39 compared to the SF 25.

[ringo]

If after this weekend Ferrari is the best car, can Ferrari win the constructors?
Is there a mathematical chance?
AI says 11 points on average more than McLaren to do so. So there is a chance. The fight is on if things get pear shaped after the TD comes into effect this weekend.

[DJ Downforce]

If after this weekend Ferrari is the best car, can Ferrari win the constructors?
Is there a mathematical chance?
AI says 11 points on average more than McLaren to do so. So there is a chance. The fight is on if things get pear shaped after the TD comes into effect this weekend.

Well it won't be so I wouldn't even calculate anything yet

[DJ Downforce]

Please don't post AI generated garbage here, particularly that made by "Grok". Think for yourself and do proper research.

Nothing about this post is true, which really does not happen that often on this forum

Kudos

Do we really have such a low bar for factual accuracy that we are now using AI as a source? We might as well rely on some drunk guy in a bar (although, to be fair, I'm doing the drunk guy a disservice with the comparison).

The shift to marketing happened on October 13, 2014 when Montezemolo left. His exit was driven by multiple factors, primarily a clash with Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne, who wanted to use the brand and alter the ethos of Ferrari F1. Montezemolo wanted a racing team, Marchionne wanted a merch franchise. You now understand the implications of that moment in time for Ferrari… Montezemolo added: "This is the end of an era and so I have decided to leave my position as Chairman after almost 23 marvelous and unforgettable years in addition to those spent at Enzo Ferrari’s side in the 1970s."
https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-re ... he%20Group.

Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA Group in the upcoming flotation on Wall Street. This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the Group…
Montezemolo clashed with Marchionne over Ferrari’s autonomy, production limits, and FCA’s stock market listing plans.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... steps-down
Luca di Montezemolo said: "Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA Group in the upcoming flotation on Wall Street.” This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the Group."

Montezemolo’s departure from Ferrari was a pivotal moment driven by a clash with Marchionne over strategy, compounded by the Formula 1 team’s poor performance and the impending FCA stock listing. It marked the end of an era for Ferrari, with lasting implications for its brand identity and racing legacy…
Ferrari will have an important role to play within the FCA group in the upcoming (listing) on Wall Street,'' Montezemolo said. ''This will open up a new and different phase which I feel should be spearheaded by the CEO of the group. This is the end of an era."
At Fiat's last shareholder's meeting, it emerged that Montezemolo will be left off the board of the merged company. Current chairman John Elkann said the move was made to reflect the international composition of the new automaker.
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/motor ... he-company

The timing of the FCA stock listing suggests Montezemolo’s departure was partly orchestrated to align Ferrari with Marchionne’s vision, potentially at the cost of its racing heritage. Montezemolo’s later comments about Ferrari’s “lack of soul” and leadership issues post-2014 indicate ongoing tensions about the company’s direction…
“They will make Ferrari become American" Montezemolo
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2014/09 ... rican.html

This is just the same thing with it's hallucinated sources

[f1316]

If after this weekend Ferrari is the best car, can Ferrari win the constructors?
Is there a mathematical chance?
AI says 11 points on average more than McLaren to do so. So there is a chance. The fight is on if things get pear shaped after the TD comes into effect this weekend.

Well it won't be so I wouldn't even calculate anything yet

Undoubtedly there’s a significant mathematical chance - two thirds of the season can easily outweigh one third. It’s very unlikely Ferrari will be the fastest car - and to overcome such a deficit there’d need to be comfortably the fastest (with a similar margin that McLaren has had so far) which is even less likely - but undoubtedly you can make huge ground very quickly if you have the fastest car.

[deadhead]

The car here should go back to how it was in Japan .. more or less

[Jdn1327]

Does anyone think ferrari will suffer from the new TD this weekend?

There is so much written/video-ed/audio-ed about this "TD18 for Barcelona GP" and how it's a 'game changer' , how teams are going to 'suffer' etc etc, they are all clickbaits where incongruous content is being stuffed into the reader/viewer's face.

What is this really ? The front wing flexes (more in some cars, less in others) and the advantage that this offers is - as speeds go higher and higher, the more the wing 'bends' downward (laterally and longitudinally) - the lesser the drag, the lesser the front downforce ; compared to the situation where the front wing is 100% rigid.
It's obvious, the advantage of lesser drag. When is less front downforce useful ? It's useful in a straight line and in high speed long corners, where it's preferable to have the center of pressure on the car to shift rearwards, as any 'strong bite' from the front tyres can produce snap oversteer on the car. The 'less intensely' the front tyres jam into the tarmac in this situation, the 'more room for noise filtering' is there on small twitches in the steering from the vibrations transmitted through the drivers hands from a cockpit which has nil NVH damping. That's all there is to it, IMHO.

And even before this 2025 season started, during the winter break it was announced that all teams will get an "8 races worth preparation time" to correct their wings. Has there ever been a TD that is so much lenient ? I don't have any, in recent memory. All teams have had enough time to 'adapt' their wing and floor designs to 'accommodate' this TD18. I don't expect anyone to suffer a 'performance shocker' because of this TD. There might be slight increase in straightline drag (and hence top speed reduction) for many teams, but nothing more than that. Ferrari, who have had the 'least flexi' front wing of all, are hoping to cash in on their top-speed advantage, since even in the first 8 races, they have been amongst the bunch of cars with highest top speed.

Other than this, I don't think this TD18 is going to do anything. It would have, had it been imposed right from race1. But from the 9th race, this 'bomb' is already a diffused one.

Thank you for this... I won't get my hopes up then. I remember when Mercedes were pushing TD39 to make redbull slower...but it actually made them faster and nothing changed