Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Timstr
Timstr
8
Joined: 25 Jan 2004, 12:09

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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In the latest issue of Racecar Engineering, James Allison said they started developing the Coanda exhaust way before the launch of the 2012 car. They were running a parallel program. Only when the design progressed to a point where it showed a positive effective relative to the standard exhaust did they bring it to production.

Mercedes started looking into it much later.

Interesting read anyway:
http://issuu.com/chelseamagazines/docs/ ... eNumber=10

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Timstr wrote:
wesley123 wrote:
Timstr wrote:The pressure array is to gauge tyre wake effects of the 2013 tyres versus 2012 tyres I think.
If the tire wake reaches the area between the end plates then they did a really crappy job. Ah well, seems pretty likely, they are the only team to not get the coanda to work and ditched it.
Front tyre wake has an effect on the entire car.
But not that much. If the front tire wake is still noticable there then you as a team would need to sack the whole team as they clearly have no knowledge of aero at all.

I would say these tubes in between the end plate measure exhaust flow, which they are trying to model.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Timstr
Timstr
8
Joined: 25 Jan 2004, 12:09

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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wesley123 wrote:
Timstr wrote:
wesley123 wrote:
If the tire wake reaches the area between the end plates then they did a really crappy job. Ah well, seems pretty likely, they are the only team to not get the coanda to work and ditched it.
Front tyre wake has an effect on the entire car.
But not that much. If the front tire wake is still noticable there then you as a team would need to sack the whole team as they clearly have no knowledge of aero at all.

I would say these tubes in between the end plate measure exhaust flow, which they are trying to model.
The point is that the unknown 2013 tyres have a new construction and therefore they are expected to deform differently (as has been reported), compared to the known 2012 tyre. The gauges are there to confirm if this is case.

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Forza
238
Joined: 08 Sep 2010, 20:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Timstr wrote:In the latest issue of Racecar Engineering, James Allison said they started developing the Coanda exhaust way before the launch of the 2012 car. They were running a parallel program. Only when the design progressed to a point where it showed a positive effective relative to the standard exhaust did they bring it to production.

Mercedes started looking into it much later.

Interesting read anyway:
http://issuu.com/chelseamagazines/docs/ ... eNumber=10
They (Mercedes) were still seeking the clarification from Fia on several exhaust designs featured by other teams at the start of the season (March).Pre Singapore GP exhaust development

Here is also the article about F1W03 from the RCE January 2013 edition that explains the exhaust development (click on image for full size)

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Adding some pictures from Friday Free Practice at Brazilian GP
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MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Thanks for that mate! really appreciate it

Timstr
Timstr
8
Joined: 25 Jan 2004, 12:09

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Forza wrote:
Timstr wrote:In the latest issue of Racecar Engineering, James Allison said they started developing the Coanda exhaust way before the launch of the 2012 car. They were running a parallel program. Only when the design progressed to a point where it showed a positive effective relative to the standard exhaust did they bring it to production.

Mercedes started looking into it much later.

Interesting read anyway:
http://issuu.com/chelseamagazines/docs/ ... eNumber=10
They (Mercedes) were still seeking the clarification from Fia on several exhaust designs featured by other teams at the start of the season (March).Pre Singapore GP exhaust development

Here is also the article about F1W03 from the RCE January 2013 edition that explains the exhaust development (click on image for full size)
Many thanks for this.

elf341
elf341
5
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Thanks Forza.

Do you have page 18, as it seems to be missing?

Sounds like the story of their season was essentially believing the FIA would clamp down hard on the exhaust systems of the top teams. That of course never happened and therefore the moved back into serious aero deficit.

MercAMGF1Fans
MercAMGF1Fans
41
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 07:10
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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elf341 wrote:Thanks Forza.

Do you have page 18, as it seems to be missing?

Sounds like the story of their season was essentially believing the FIA would clamp down hard on the exhaust systems of the top teams. That of course never happened and therefore the moved back into serious aero deficit.
Page 18 is just an advert

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Bell basically says the understand their package much better now as they did in previous years ..

Sorry but that is complete bs...they have even struggled to predict where the car would be in good shape in recent times..!
And ..why not run both cars completely different when you are not sure about coanda? Schumacher and Rosberg have worked 3 years together ,so why not let Schumacher maximise what is in the package and give him a good seasons end and let Rosberg work on his future developing coanda... #-o
Reverting to the old exhausts looks like they have switched on their perfomance again -and this certainly contradicts with Bell´s statementz they made progress over the year -but not enough compared to others....Or was it just the track characteristics suiting the old config? They seem to lack methodology and structured approach -but that´s my personal view only.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
404
Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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elf341 wrote:Thanks Forza.

Do you have page 18, as it seems to be missing?

Sounds like the story of their season was essentially believing the FIA would clamp down hard on the exhaust systems of the top teams. That of course never happened and therefore the moved back into serious aero deficit.
Page 18 is just an advertisement.

elf341
elf341
5
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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Are you sure it's just an advert? The text at the start of pahe 19 doesn't logically or gramatically follow on from the end of the text on page 17.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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marcush. wrote:Bell basically says the understand their package much better now as they did in previous years ..

Sorry but that is complete bs...they have even struggled to predict where the car would be in good shape in recent times..!
And ..why not run both cars completely different when you are not sure about coanda? Schumacher and Rosberg have worked 3 years together ,so why not let Schumacher maximise what is in the package and give him a good seasons end and let Rosberg work on his future developing coanda... #-o
Reverting to the old exhausts looks like they have switched on their perfomance again -and this certainly contradicts with Bell´s statementz they made progress over the year -but not enough compared to others....Or was it just the track characteristics suiting the old config? They seem to lack methodology and structured approach -but that´s my personal view only.

Switching back to the standard is not really to admit they don't know which is faster, or that one is better. It's really to remove more variables from the chassis and tyre evaluation. The coanda exhaust will add a lot of unwanted variables to tyre evaluation, especially since they don't have control of it as yet. It will affect tyre temperature readings, balance issue readings, among other things.
I agree with them going back to the standard that they know. It takes away that interaction of the exhaust with the zones around the tyre, and also the distorting of the tyre's mechanical properties.
For Sure!!

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Forza
238
Joined: 08 Sep 2010, 20:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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F1.com wrote:Mercedes F1 W03 - revised rear wing
In Brazil Mercedes have been busy experimenting for the 2013 season, sampling a standard, non Coanada-style exhaust. They also decided to use a revised rear wing (see drawing) in qualifying and the race at Interlagos as next season the DRS-operated 'F-duct' rear wing they currently use will be outlawed. Overall the innovative system has proved to be problematic and has limited the evolution of the front wing.
Image

user001
user001
-2
Joined: 29 Sep 2012, 15:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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ringo wrote:
marcush. wrote:Bell basically says the understand their package much better now as they did in previous years ..

Sorry but that is complete bs...they have even struggled to predict where the car would be in good shape in recent times..!
And ..why not run both cars completely different when you are not sure about coanda? Schumacher and Rosberg have worked 3 years together ,so why not let Schumacher maximise what is in the package and give him a good seasons end and let Rosberg work on his future developing coanda... #-o
Reverting to the old exhausts looks like they have switched on their perfomance again -and this certainly contradicts with Bell´s statementz they made progress over the year -but not enough compared to others....Or was it just the track characteristics suiting the old config? They seem to lack methodology and structured approach -but that´s my personal view only.

Switching back to the standard is not really to admit they don't know which is faster, or that one is better. It's really to remove more variables from the chassis and tyre evaluation. The coanda exhaust will add a lot of unwanted variables to tyre evaluation, especially since they don't have control of it as yet. It will affect tyre temperature readings, balance issue readings, among other things.
I agree with them going back to the standard that they know. It takes away that interaction of the exhaust with the zones around the tyre, and also the distorting of the tyre's mechanical properties.
we´ve heard it all before. better understanding, we have to..., we want to.... all they´re keep saying this season since singapore is regardless and only fill-in. the evolved the BGP01 year to year, maybe 2012 not as much since there have been 200 new parts of the car totally newly engineered and the weight-distribt...

next year's car, according to lauda, will be a totally new designed, planned and made racing-machine from scratch. though rosberg could manage to drive the same lap times in singapore as the leading car i doubt they can gain any truly worthfull info about the chassis except on the tyres.

we will see if it was the right move to dump Bigois and hire elliot. after three years you could say so, though i doubt they will throw all their knowledge they gained since BGP01 over board....

I think i was the first person here to mark the error that the cooling slots on the coanda are on the outside and not on the inside as airflow would mix up the "neutral" cooling exhaust gases with the one from the actual coanda exhaust. if there is not any reason due to packaging the w03 ingredients to do so GOOD NIGHT merc. ´cause here´s already elliot´s footprint on it. every child knows that airflow, especially slower "cooling heat", is suppressed to the inner side (also regarding coke-bottle design of the rear) and this would disturb the coanda exhaust stream. i could not believe it and did not find it on any other car afterwards. what kind of aerodynamicists do they employ at merc??

I had to laugh the most when gary anderson from the bbc mentioned the false position of ex cooling slots i think last week on the bbc website. what a laugh. if elliot was about to make a change why not already now? or is he only involved in next year´s car? what a shame...

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Cocles
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 13:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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If you're going to shout to the rafters about something Gary Anderson wrote, you should at least give us a link. ;)