2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Hammerfist]

The real worry for me is that Merc, 2 years later still haven't figured how to have a good top speed...

What is it with this never-ending narrative. Their top speed is massively improved this year. In fact, during the race George was matching both RB and Ferrari on the straights.

Their drs just doesnt yield a lot of speed differential. They have probably the worst drs system. Without drs though they are not bad.

[ringo]

50 point gap in a car that cant even get on the podium without some mishaps by the front runners is a big gap between teammates.
As for the qualy gap. When lewis stops tweaking, things will lean back in his favour.
He tends to tweak too much and mess up fp2 and fp3 and doesnt get in good enough running for qualy.

??? It has a long history...when it was Rosberg vs. Ham it was completely normal that one of the two messes up Q3 and is 0.3-0.4sec behind the other one. Just look at the old Q times.
Today F1 is so competitive that 0.4s loss in Q2 ends the Q for you...
So I do not see what you mean with tweaking, I would rather say it is the risk he takes for the last lap in the Q sessions.

For the gap: I agree, the gap is huge. We see a particularly bad season by Russel. Similar to the bad half season by Ham last year...so also not something special, this happens for nearly everyone on the grid.

FP2 and FP3 are practice sessions. Not qualy sessions.
Though in fariness, both drivers have messed up qualifying as well. Both are human and make errors, both in practice looking for an edge, and also in qualifying where conversations are had with the race engineer on how to prep tyres and when is the perfect time to be on the track. There are a lot of moving parts, so I for one do not overly judge George or Lewis for some of the poorer outcomes with W14. They're both virtually operating at the same level.
George is also underrated. I saw somewhere someone saying he is a tier 1b driver. I find it funny, because only Max and Lewis make less errors. The other top drivers Lando and Charles make more errors and underperform more.
Overall I think think, as you say things are so close on track a few tenths can mean many places both in qualy and race results.
Lewis' battle with Alonso is a prime example. Alonso lost a good bunch of points to Lewis, through a tiny window, between Albon and 2 Mclarens. Lewis was fortunate to get by and gain 5 seconds on Albon to maintain 6th while Alonso was in 9th.

[Spoutnik]

[chrisc90]

Interesting. They also ran into problems with George in Canada. Can’t remember any others off the top of my head.

Does anyone know what the cause was back then and whether a repeat happened this time?

[Just_a_fan]

Interesting. They also ran into problems with George in Canada. Can’t remember any others off the top of my head.

Does anyone know what the cause was back then and whether a repeat happened this time?

Could just be as simple as detritus stuck in a brake duct. Max was also suffering with an issue that appears to be brake temps at the end of the race in Monza. Also likely a partially blocked brake duct.

[organic]

Toto is having an operation relating to the broken bones from cycling accident, and will miss Suzuka. D'ambrosio will cover Toto's role

[AR3-GP]

Judging by the discourse on the subject, I'm not sure I buy that people will forget this season whether it's the dominance of one team, or the plight of another.

[AR3-GP]

Toto is having an operation relating to the broken bones from cycling accident, and will miss Suzuka. D'ambrosio will cover Toto's role

Clever Toto. Japan has a brutal time change.

If you'll recall, Toto also skipped the Japanese GP last year.

[ringo]

Interesting. They also ran into problems with George in Canada. Can’t remember any others off the top of my head.

Does anyone know what the cause was back then and whether a repeat happened this time?

Could just be as simple as detritus stuck in a brake duct. Max was also suffering with an issue that appears to be brake temps at the end of the race in Monza. Also likely a partially blocked brake duct.

Makes sense. I think Max would have the luxury of slowing down. Lewis maybe exagersted rhe issue by having to find 5 seconds to albon.

[Just_a_fan]

Judging by the discourse on the subject, I'm not sure I buy that people will forget this season whether it's the dominance of one team, or the plight of another.

Oh, the dominance of the car will be remembered, just as the MP4/4, the F2002 & F2004, etc., are legendary, but the details of the rest of the season will be quickly forgotten by most, just as most don't remember the travails of the non-champion teams for most years. It's only particular moments of a season - usually contentious - that stick in the memory for longer periods.

Some Merc fans will look back at the current problems with some annoyance, some others will look back with glee. The rest won't remember much of any of it in a few years.

[PlatinumZealot]

That's true the races won't be remembered just the dominance of the season and how Max won 18 times in a row with 20 wins.

[ringo]

I always say the highlight reels are what matters. Not the stats. The drives are what makes the legend. 100 of Hamiltons wins. Not all a memorable. But i think a good portion are thanks to the diveristy in teammates and the free to race philosophy. Sometimes the team even helping the other side of the garage more.

[georgekyr]

I always say the highlight reels are what matters. Not the stats...

You are absolutely right...Seeing Hamilton getting a win in a 3 wheeler is something unforgettable, winning from last place in Brazil, driving in the rain in Germany 2018 and lapping all from 4th up position...

It's the same as in the past. E.g., Senna at Donington Park ultimate lap probably in all of F1 history in the wet or the time that Senna actually had the speed of thought and action to remove reverse gear safety after a driving error, engage reverse and then move forward so that no accident occurred in Catalunya 1991 and then continue the race...

[Just_a_fan]

It's the same as in the past. E.g., Senna at Donington Park ultimate lap probably in all of F1 history in the wet

Ironically, Senna didn't see it that way:

The ace himself didn’t seem all that impressed with his performance, though. ‘People later said that my win in the wet at Donington in ’93 was my greatest performance,’ he said. ‘No way! I had traction control OK, I didn’t make any real mistakes, but the car was so much easier to drive. It was a good win, sure, but compared with Estoril ’85 it was nothing, really.’

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/ ... ritish-gp/

[CMSMJ1]

Exactly. Certain other drivers who had weak teammates and dominant cars know in their hearts that the wins were open goals.

Exactly. Certain other drivers who had weak teammates and dominant cars know in their hearts that the wins were open goals.

Nothing but truth.. racing against perez is a dream for any driver on the grid

Drivers can't (usually) choose their team mates and they have to beat whoever it is in the other car.

Discussions on this are not really Merc team thread fare though, eh? So, how's about moving that elsewhere...