MotoGP 2015

[Andres125sx]

I understand your passion for MM. He is from Spain too. So is Jorge and Dani...

Don´t get fooled, until yesterday I prefered Rossi winning this title. You just have to scroll back this thread to read some of my comments. Lorenzo has never been one of my favourites and I thought Rossi deserved his 10th title before retiring

But yesterday I was so dissapointed by Rossi now I think he doesn´t deserve it. Until yesterday Rossi had had some incidents wich were on the limit (Gibernau Jerez for example) but that´s all, on the limit, he had always calculated very good this sort of incidents to be on the limit without going further. He had always been perfect on defeat, congratulating his oponents. He had always been very sportsmanlike

But yesterday that changed. Now he crossed the line. He realiced he can´t compete for the title for his own so he tried the italian way, like Melandri with Alzamora around 16 years back....


I´ve never liked Lorenzo. When I saw him on his very first podium in 125cc, when he wasn´t not even a teenager, and when tv talked to him he was upset because he didn´t win.... that was so arrogant IMO after his first podium on a world championship I´ve never liked him since then.

But Rossi yesterday crossed the line, that line any sportsman should never cross, that line I´d have never tought Rossi could cross. He put one of his colleague in danger intentionally because of his own interest and I will never forget it

[turbof1]

I think many will not forgive him that. Rossi did unrepairable damage to his reputation with that one move, and it will remain a stain on his career no matter what he does after this.

I simply hope he does not win the title, for the sake of the sport. If he wins it, it'll always be known that he got the title due being too lightly punished.

Rossi needs a Valencia straight out of MM 2012 play book to stand any chance. I can't see that happening. This incident has robbed us of the kind of fair race that this championships deserves going into the finale, and it has been one of the best championships I have seen in sometime.

You should post more often.

It has been one of the best championships, the previous race was an utter testament to that, right until Rossi made that kick . I think I can more or less agree with you that Rossi intentionally kicked but did not intentionally tried to make MM crash. However, I feel that matter little. You are crossing a line when deliberately kicking at someone, and now we know how utterly dangerous that is. Rossi tried to defender himself by stating a kick will not make a bike crash. Well, kicking a bike mid corner and hitting the brake pedal WILL make it crash. You can't shoot someone in the heart and afterwards claim you were aiming for the shoulder, even if true.

The championship is unfortunaly tainted. And as you said, there's no way to someone have a fair showdown for it in the last race. The only thing that is out there is to make less unfair.

[emaren]

Having raced motorcycles in my past, I can say that kicking a fellow racers motorcycle will not cause them to crash. At speed they take a hell of a lot of muscling to get them to change direction, kicking the tank or the fairing will do nothing at all.

A common way of dealing with a competitor was to ruin their line, pushing them wide was considered normal as long as they still had somewhere to go, and all part of the game back in my 250LC days (1980's). If you watch almost any motorcycle racing, there is a significant amount of 'line ruining' that goes on. Often a rider will run wide to force their opponent to back off and adjust their line.

In this instance Marquez did not concede the line, he chose to crash into Rossi, which caused him to crash.

In the end Rossi was penalised for running wide Marquez wide, not kicking him.

On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, you deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

I think is is just grade-A fertiliser. Marquez was making life extremely difficult for Rossi, watch the footage from the Helicopter and then tell the world that the crash was Rossi 'kicking Marquez over'. ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tv0voGsDl0

If Rossi's move was worth 3 points, then I would think that Marquez deserves quite a few for the various moves he pulled prior to the collision.....

[turbof1]

Having raced motorcycles in my past, I can say that kicking a fellow racers motorcycle will not cause them to crash. At speed they take a hell of a lot of muscling to get them to change direction, kicking the tank or the fairing will do nothing at

When Rossi kicked, he hit the brake handle of Marquez. I'm sure you are in the position to tell that suddenly braking while turning and cambered will give you a face first trip to the tarmaq.

[emaren]

Having raced motorcycles in my past, I can say that kicking a fellow racers motorcycle will not cause them to crash. At speed they take a hell of a lot of muscling to get them to change direction, kicking the tank or the fairing will do nothing at

When Rossi kicked, he hit the brake handle of Marquez. I'm sure you are in the position to tell that suddenly braking while turning and cambered will give you a face first trip to the tarmaq.

That would be a fantastically lucky kick.

What I see, from the video I posted above, is that Marquez rode into Rossi rather than adjust his line to the less-than optimum one that Rossi was forcing him towards. Marquez hit Rossi and dislodged his foot from the peg. In many ways Rossi was very lucky that he too was not taken out. Marquez appeared to be on a do-or-die mission to wreck Rossi's race. He took himself out.

[turbof1]

Having raced motorcycles in my past, I can say that kicking a fellow racers motorcycle will not cause them to crash. At speed they take a hell of a lot of muscling to get them to change direction, kicking the tank or the fairing will do nothing at

When Rossi kicked, he hit the brake handle of Marquez. I'm sure you are in the position to tell that suddenly braking while turning and cambered will give you a face first trip to the tarmaq.

That would be a fantastically lucky kick.

What I see, from the video I posted above, is that Marquez rode into Rossi rather than adjust his line to the less-than optimum one that Rossi was forcing him towards. Marquez hit Rossi and dislodged his foot from the peg. In many ways Rossi was very lucky that he too was not taken out. Marquez appeared to be on a do-or-die mission to wreck Rossi's race. He took himself out.

It got confirmed by both that the brake handle was hit. Marquez indeed leaned on the leg/knee of Rossi but I wouldn't go as far as saying he dislodged it, rather he pushed it a bit forward. However, the kick Rossi gave was not related to this. The footage showed he clearly made that on his own rather then as a reflex or knockback.

Moreover, let's not forget it was Rossi who pushed MM wide (also confirmed by both), meaning Rossi was the cause himself that MM got hit by Rossi rather then the other way around.

I can agree the racing between them got rougher and rougher, every time closer to the limit. It would probably have ended in a crash anyway, but kicking really went one step too far.

[jz11]

looked like a freak accident where officials overreacted - there is brake lever guard for this very reason - you must be very "lucky" to hit that one spot where you can press on the brake "through" the drivers hand, and I don't see that "kick" even happening if Marquez didn't make contact with him split second earlier

[Andres125sx]

Having raced motorcycles in my past, I can say that kicking a fellow racers motorcycle will not cause them to crash. At speed they take a hell of a lot of muscling to get them to change direction, kicking the tank or the fairing will do nothing at all.

Having raced motorcycles in the past you should know when you´re on the limit even a wind gust can cause a crash, let alone a kick, let alone hitting somone´s brake. Maybe you´re thinking about a straigh line situation, in that case I could agree (if the front brake lever is not involved) but that was not the case


IMHO some people are willing to defend Rossi so strongly they have bought his poor excuses without considering if they make any sense or not

Even Rossi stated himself he was only trying to push him away. The crash is actually irrelevant here, Rossi kicked Marc trying to push him away, that´s more than enough for a black flag.

[Andres125sx]

looked like a freak accident where officials overreacted - there is brake lever guard for this very reason - you must be very "lucky" to hit that one spot where you can press on the brake "through" the drivers hand

So you´re basically saying Marc is a liar

Even if he didn´t hit the front brake lever and kicked the guard, that guard in on the handlebar. Try hitting your handlebar while leaning/cornering, if you survive the test then come here and tell us a kick in the handelbar is not enough to cause a crash.

[jz11]

you red it wrong - I'm not saying it didn't happen - I'm agreeing that it wasn't planned or even intentional like the penalty implies, and that the "kick" wouldn't even happen if there wouldn't be the (pretty sure intentional) contact just before that

hockey has a penalty for instigating - those guys realize that something earlier caused this event to happen and punish both sides, not just 1, Rossi should receive penalty for unsportsmanship, and so should Marquez, else they just add fuel to fire and encourage reckless driving

[Andres125sx]

you red it wrong - I'm not saying it didn't happen - I'm agreeing that it wasn't planned or even intentional like the penalty implies

Sorry but not true, the penalty actually states the opposite, they can´t prove Rossi hitted intentionally Marquez´s bike and that´s the reason for the small penalty, only 3 points from the rider licence after causing a crash is almost offensive

If they were accepting it was intentional they would have disqualified Rossi from the final results

hockey has a penalty for instigating - those guys realize that something earlier caused this event to happen and punish both sides, not just 1, Rossi should receive penalty for unsportsmanship, and so should Marquez, else they just add fuel to fire and encourage reckless driving

I´m socked reading this...

What did Marquez to deserve you calling him unsportsmanship?

When he raced that hard Lorenzo, Pedrosa or even Rossi in past two seasons it was seen as racing, aggressiveness, and brave. But now that same philosophy is seen as unsportmanship? What´s the reason? What changed?

Nothing, even Rossi took those past battles great, but this time he couldn´t cope with his title chances going down and overreacted. It was Rossi who overreacted, not the stewards.

Marquez was doing the same as always, fighting as hard as he can. Since his very first race in MotoGP he has always tried to pass anyone who pass him as fast as possible blocking him to stop him from moving away, always. That has been one of their main characteristics as MotoGP rider. Ask Pedrosa or Lorenzo. Yesterday he did exactly that, nothing more and nothing less, the only different thing this time was Rossi, who was too tense because of obvious reasons, but that´s not Marquez problem, he did his job as he´s always done.

[jz11]

so driving into and making contact with the driver in front of you is OK? by a guy who has no shot at the championship at someone who actually is fighting to keep lead? at the end of the season? with 1 race to go?

any decent human being is simply not doing that - you race, but you avoid any risk, which he did not, it would be comparable to 2014 season in F1, if in last couple races someone, Vettel for instance, would "race" Rosberg or Hamilton and run into one of them Hulk style from last race? You jut don't do that... and if you do - you deserve to get punished

I wouldn't say anything if this was beginning of the season, but circumstances are way different when it is this close to the end

[Andres125sx]

Marquez driving into Rossi?

Or just the opposite?

[variante]

I stick with my opinion: Rossi deliberately caused Marquez's fall (in total safety, it must be said). However that move must be contextualized: Rossi did it after being provoked many times, and he did it to prevent a major accident (that Marquez was about to cause with such an aggressive drive) that would have cost Rossi the championship for sure!

(Awesome racing, anyways )

As an aside note, I'd like you to read the words pronounced by Loris Reggiani. EDIT: source confirmed: "La Gazzetta dello Sport"

Mentre guardavo il GP di Australia pensavo: oggi per la prima volta in tanti anni, Valentino non è lucido in gara, continua a sorpassare Marquez e fargli perdere tempo, mentre sarebbe meglio stargli dietro e seguirlo per andare a recuperare, perché Marc è l’unico che possa farlo. Poi ho sentito Rossi che in conferenza stampa del giovedì di Malesia dice quelle cose su un ipotetico aiuto di Marquez a Lorenzo, e ho pensato subito che avesse completamente perso la testa. Però ho anche pensato: se fosse come penso io, Valentino sarebbe TROPPO pazzo, e allora ho cominciato a rivivere la gara di Phillip Island nella memoria con più malizia e ho iniziato ad avere dei dubbi, su Marquez.
Ho deciso di provare a togliermi i dubbi, sono andato sul sito della motoGP: e ho stampato tutti i tempi di tutti i giri di tutti i piloti, compresi gli intertempi di ogni giro (Risultati & Statistiche > 16.Pramac Australian – Phillip Island > MotoGP > RACE > Analysis) e col foglio stampato in mano ho riguardato la registrazione della gara. E’ facile, potete farlo tutti. Non potevo credere a quello che vedevo, per essere sicuro l’ho guardata 2 volte. Marquez rallentava fino anche a più di 1 secondo al giro quando era davanti a Rossi e accelerava per sorpassarlo subito quando era dietro. Ha fatto di tutto per difendere Lorenzo da Rossi e da Iannone, poi li ha frenati un paio di volte fino a fargli perdere più di 1 secondo al penultimo giro e ha poi accelerato all’ultimo di 1 secondo, fino a raggiungere e superare, molto facilmente, Lorenzo. C’è altro, Lorenzo negli ultimi 20 giri ha SEMPRE girato super costante tra 1’29,8 e 1’29,9, tranne, guardacaso, l’ultimo giro, nel quale ha rallentato di quasi mezzo secondo e Marquez l’ha passato come fosse un doppiato, senza opporre nessuna resistenza. Chiunque abbia corso in moto sa benissimo che queste cose non succedono, certe differenze da un giro all’altro non sono per niente normali.

Poi abbiamo assistito allo squallido teatrino di Marquez in Malesia, dopo che 2 giorni prima aveva dichiarato che era sorpreso dalle parole di Valentino e che non si sarebbe MAI messo in mezzo a una faccenda tra altri due piloti. Che falso, nemmeno il coraggio di dire quello che pensa veramente. Avevo una enorme stima e simpatia per Marquez fino a ieri, da oggi lo considero un poveretto, un bambino delle scuole elementari che fa i dispetti al compagno che gli sta antipatico. Solo che qua si gioca con la vita. Avevo criticato Valentino ad Assen, la sua manovra per vincere quella gara non mi era piaciuta, da pilota sapevo che era stata un po’… sporca. Non avevo condiviso neanche le dichiarazioni di Valentino in quell’occasione, quando in qualche modo, secondo me, aveva un po’ deriso il rivale. Mentre in Argentina no, lì credo che nessuno aveva cercato il contatto ed era stato solo un fortuito incrocio di traiettorie sfortunato per Marc. Il mio pensiero è che il catalano si sia molto arrabbiato per quei 2 episodi e che, una volta matematicamente fuori alla lotta per il titolo, abbia deciso che avrebbe fatto di tutto per far perdere il mondiale a Rossi. In queste due gare l’ha ampiamente dimostrato, e ha messo in scena due delle pagine più antisportive che abbia mai visto da quando seguo questo sport. Una condotta di gara come la sua la accetto già poco se ci si sta giocando il PROPRIO mondiale, ma per quello di un altro proprio no, mi fa schifo!

E la cosa ancora peggiore, è che Marquez queste cose non le fa per far vincere qualcuno, ma per far perdere qualcun altro

[George-Jung]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OrYHEojBnE

This is the first time I have seen this clip.. but imho MM was driving way too aggressive.
And i believe you can clearly see that MM was leaning into Rossi when he "kicked" him..

I think MM staged this whole thing perfectly and Rossi was a fool not to see it.
MM was deliberately trying to crash either both or just Rossi alone, or provoke such a reaction from Rossi.

Nevertheless, for us spectators it was a great battle to watch and shame it ended up this way.