2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[etusch]

I agree about Button. Mclaren had decide wrong about that.
If Van Doorne didn't fuel saving in the race, I think there is improvement on engine side.

[Mad]

i just feel sorry for McLaren. they are in hard place. one side is Honda , no power , incompetent and supported by bunch of ardent supporters.every year talking about new design and formula to beat mercedes and still behind renault other side is Vandoorne gets spec3 unit, still below par performance, ignores blue flag and gets penalty. Today mclaren should have secured points. they were there for taking. Mclaren's only "shining light" is Alonso. make him disappear and you will so no difference between sauber and mclaren. if he retires from racing , i hope he does , mclaren will be reduced to an embarrassment. i feel sorry for McLaren. button should have been here in place of vandoorne.

Are Mclaren supporters any better? Check the Speed trap/Max-Speed data for the race, The Spec 3 is a definite improvement, Vandoorne was faster than Hulkenburg. Mclaren are paid handsomely for their woes. The "Super Duper" chassis that we hear about every race from boulier and co.? At least half of that is Honda's financial contribution, not to mention Free engines and Alonso's 40 million (?)a year salary.

All is needed is a bit of patience. If they can't show that, they shouldn't have made the deal with Honda and left Mercedes in the first place.

If Mclaren feels so hard done by Honda let the Sheiks buy Honda out of contract and choose whatever Engine they like. Bet Renault won't say no.

[mwillems]

Vandoorne missed out on hundreds of laps testing the car, a period where could could learn the cars characteristics and hone his style. It might not have helped that in at the start of the season, the engine also forced them to drive the car differently and it was only later that he was able to begin getting a feel for the consistency of the car. Even then, due to reliability he hasn't got the laps in as much as we'd like.

Given everything that has gone wrong for Mclaren Honda, I'm not sure you can reliably pin speed issues on a rookie :/

Vandoorne has a tough job I think. These cars are harder to drive than later year and a completely different style. He came in and did a good job last year and showed he had pace. This year the cars are trickier, the style of driving this forumula is different and he may need more time to adapt, and as good as the chassis may be, it doesn't mean it is to his liking in the way it handles. Allied to that he has one of the best drivers on the grid as his team mate. He will need time to grow into the sport I think, and I doubt that talent has gone away. If he can adapt to the formula and pick it up, he will be fine, IMO.

[ZakB]

The reason is that Mercedes and McLaren talks haven't resulted in anything positive. McLaren wants to pay more than the other customers teams, but they also want technical assistance. They don't want to be a customer like Williams or Force India, because they know they aren't going to win that way. So they will probably stick with Honda and their large sum of cash, which they can spend on car development.

[proteus]

i just feel sorry for McLaren. they are in hard place. one side is Honda , no power , incompetent and supported by bunch of ardent supporters.every year talking about new design and formula to beat mercedes and still behind renault other side is Vandoorne gets spec3 unit, still below par performance, ignores blue flag and gets penalty. Today mclaren should have secured points. they were there for taking. Mclaren's only "shining light" is Alonso. make him disappear and you will so no difference between sauber and mclaren. if he retires from racing , i hope he does , mclaren will be reduced to an embarrassment. i feel sorry for McLaren. button should have been here in place of vandoorne.

Are Mclaren supporters any better? Check the Speed trap/Max-Speed data for the race, The Spec 3 is a definite improvement, Vandoorne was faster than Hulkenburg. Mclaren are paid handsomely for their woes. The "Super Duper" chassis that we hear about every race from boulier and co.? At least half of that is Honda's financial contribution, not to mention Free engines and Alonso's 40 million (?)a year salary.

All is needed is a bit of patience. If they can't show that, they shouldn't have made the deal with Honda and left Mercedes in the first place.

If Mclaren feels so hard done by Honda let the Sheiks buy Honda out of contract and choose whatever Engine they like. Bet Renault won't say no.

Well how much are they giving to you then for the PR? A statement "little bit more patience" is a statement which we are hearing constantly in last two and a half years.

Mclaren should be thankfull for the money? - since the disaster they have received in this period of time, they are entitled for conpensation in terms of finances since they lost so much ground in the prize money alone, not to mention sponsors which have left due to what is happening. And dont forget that the whole team became a laughing stock for quite some time now trough all this patience time.

((((The "Super Duper" chassis that we hear about every race from boulier and co.?)))) - i just wont comment that.


Sorry for rant, but all this Honda praise and "patience" claims are starting to get on my nerve, and the steam and pressure must be released.

[Sayeman]

i just feel sorry for McLaren. they are in hard place. one side is Honda , no power , incompetent and supported by bunch of ardent supporters.every year talking about new design and formula to beat mercedes and still behind renault other side is Vandoorne gets spec3 unit, still below par performance, ignores blue flag and gets penalty. Today mclaren should have secured points. they were there for taking. Mclaren's only "shining light" is Alonso. make him disappear and you will so no difference between sauber and mclaren. if he retires from racing , i hope he does , mclaren will be reduced to an embarrassment. i feel sorry for McLaren. button should have been here in place of vandoorne.

Are Mclaren supporters any better? Check the Speed trap/Max-Speed data for the race, The Spec 3 is a definite improvement, Vandoorne was faster than Hulkenburg. Mclaren are paid handsomely for their woes. The "Super Duper" chassis that we hear about every race from boulier and co.? At least half of that is Honda's financial contribution, not to mention Free engines and Alonso's 40 million (?)a year salary.

All is needed is a bit of patience. If they can't show that, they shouldn't have made the deal with Honda and left Mercedes in the first place.

If Mclaren feels so hard done by Honda let the Sheiks buy Honda out of contract and choose whatever Engine they like. Bet Renault won't say no.

Well how much are they giving to you then for the PR? A statement "little bit more patience" is a statement which we are hearing constantly in last two and a half years.

Mclaren should be thankfull for the money? - since the disaster they have received in this period of time, they are entitled for conpensation in terms of finances since they lost so much ground in the prize money alone, not to mention sponsors which have left due to what is happening. And dont forget that the whole team became a laughing stock for quite some time now trough all this patience time.

((((The "Super Duper" chassis that we hear about every race from boulier and co.?)))) - i just wont comment that.


Sorry for rant, but all this Honda praise and "patience" claims are starting to get on my nerve, and the steam and pressure must be released.

I am afraid the only way to release that steam and pressure is whine and moan like Boulier and Ojjeh, cause Mclaren are in this for long haul. Didn't the big sponsors left even before Honda came on? I thought the main reason for them leaving was due to Dennis asking for too much money. The ones that have left after 2014 weren't big title sponsors.

[vantage87]

[Jef Patat]

Contrary to all the Stoffel whining in here I read the post race comments as Stoffel penalty was a risk taken by the team. "We had to try something" and it didn't cost positions anyway.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/au ... rand-prix/

[kaepernickus]

Contrary to all the Stoffel whining in here I read the post race comments as Stoffel penalty was a risk taken by the team. "We had to try something" and it didn't cost positions anyway.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/au ... rand-prix/

Criticism of Stoff in here has gone way beyond any justifiable level.

- He's a rookie and has always needed a little time to settle in.
- The engine is horrific compared to the other 3 in terms of power and driveability.
- He's got Alonso as team mate. One of the best ever, hugely experienced and in his third year with the difficult engine.

So, as I said before, people need to cut him some slack and give him time.
It's not like he could destroy McLarens' WCC hopes right now.

[Jef Patat]

Exactly. I rewatched and from the footage I saw he went out of the way at corner exit. Maybe just after the 3 flag. Then given the same penalty as Kvyat who destroys 2 other cars?

In the belgian press there was part of an article focusing on Stoffel being a rookie next to a champion. Some extra details that I hadn't read before:

I explain how Alonso often gets new parts, such as the renewed Honda engine in Baku (Stoffel has it here too). I explain how Stoffel in Montreal got the assignment to let pass Alonso, thus breaking his rhythm, thereby being immediately under threat of other opponents. I explain how Stoffel saves fuel in that same Montreal every time the team asked him to save fuel while Alonso kept pushing on his accelerator. And I also tell you how a French colleague told me yesterday that Alonso had two weeks ago in Baku, without telling or asking his engineer, put his car in qualifying mode for a few rounds. In summary? The Spaniard does everything possible to be as quickly as possible, even if that means he does things that the team does not ask him. Do not read any criticism. He can afford it, and McLaren does not point him right because it will definitely keep his star driver next season. Of course, Stoffel can not afford so much-you must call it "free interpretation of the rules of the house". It's his first season at McLaren, he is still building his relationship with the team. And no, that's not a bad thing about good, evil from innocence. It is a matter of seniority. A young employee can also afford less than a colleague with decades of service, right?

[etusch]

I believe Honda has most outstanding PU architecture( based on what I read Honda PU thread) and when it started to work as expected it will be very competitive. I believe this will happen 2018. İt might not be most powerful but enough to fight for WCC/WDC. Renault and others can be better than Honda in terms of power, in terms of competitiveness Honda also will be there. I think they all will be very close to each other next season.

[j.yank]

I tried to visualize McLaren-Honda progress since the beginning of the season. This is index based on Qualification lap difference with the poll lap time corrected with the length of track. The power circuits are clearly visible, but also the progress on the more suitable for McLaren races.
http://i.imgur.com/DfyoqJq.jpg

[aral]

Could you guys not note the title of the thread? How has Hulkenberg and Renault been involved in this topic? A number of badly off topic posts have been removed, so please try to stay on topic.

[diffuser]

Contrary to all the Stoffel whining in here I read the post race comments as Stoffel penalty was a risk taken by the team. "We had to try something" and it didn't cost positions anyway.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/au ... rand-prix/

Criticism of Stoff in here has gone way beyond any justifiable level.

- He's a rookie and has always needed a little time to settle in.
- The engine is horrific compared to the other 3 in terms of power and driveability.
- He's got Alonso as team mate. One of the best ever, hugely experienced and in his third year with the difficult engine.

So, as I said before, people need to cut him some slack and give him time.
It's not like he could destroy McLarens' WCC hopes right now.

Personally I feel the criticism of Van has been kind of good. It hasn't been too harsh even though he has sucked.

[Manoah2u]

exactly. though there is definately a lot of things to defend him with, at the same time, there's really pretty much where there's little to no excuse either.

i'll keep it simple; Zak Brown says they see in him 'a future world champion' but to be honest, in F1 atleast, there is absolutely zero sign of that in any aspect.
It's still fact that the first guy you must beat is your teammate and he hasn't managed to actually do so, and one can defend Alonso is 'Alonso', but then still, it's his teammate,
and if he's supposedly some prodigy next WDC, then he SHOULD be near Alonso the least, which he is not. Button actually was right on par with Alonso all the time, as with Hamilton,
so again, VanDoorne atleast SHOULD be close - which he is not.

Button came totally underprepared into Monaco so that can't count for this year, but at the same time, it's not really like VanDoorne pulverized or shamed Button. Despite Button slamming wehrlein into the fences.