2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[Juzh]

I think Lewis had a tiny lift in T8 which was not shown in app telemetry.

Interestingly enough, you can see them, briefly, lifting on 2009 QLF, but Massa and Vettel remain above 275km/h almost the entire time(the 275 bar briefly flashes out during the cornering) and that is a bit more speed than the current cars going flat out(I guess that´s due to more tyre scrubbing nowadays)



Curiously, the 2009 Mclaren had so poor downforce that Hamilton was going way slower, almost like a GP2 car. And, by 2010, they gained so much downforce with the EBD that Kobayashi and Webber blast through flatout without any difficulty

2009/2010 cars are not going faster than 2021, you are 10 kmh off on the scale on that silly speedo that they used back then. As you can see in final clip from 2011 (pole lap), Vettel enters T8 with DRS and KERS help at 275 kmh, then bleeds off 10 kmh mid corner, hovers at 265 and then starts to regain speed again.
Compare to that to Leclerc's Q3 lap this year. Entry speed 278 kmh, minimum speed 271. Obviously he could go faster if he had more power, but I suspect they dont use battery trough T8 to preserve it for back straight.

Early RB6 before F-duct was aerodynamic brick and I doubt they had more than 270 kmh entry speed, and probably no more than 265 mid corner. Same with sauber probably.

[matt_b]

Max only gained 8 points today despite Lewis having a 10 place grid penalty and finishing 5th, they also have a car which appears slower than the Mercedes and a confident Bottas who can now back up Lewis to inflict maximum damage for the remaining 6 races wow.

[falonso81]

I was more excited today with Ferrari's race pace. It was evident from Friday that they were within a tenth of the leading pace. Once again though Ferrari strategists and pit crew did their best to undo all the good work. Does anyone know why Carlos was stationary for 8 seconds? Everything looked to be ok, pit crew all standing and watching the car. Leclerc should have been in right after Max did. He lost out big time because he was inching closer to him all the time before the stops.

[El Scorchio]

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

Don’t worry. It wasn’t your post I was responding to. If you classify today as dominant (and fair enough, that’s open to personal interpretation. I’m not sure I’d class either car as ‘dominant’ in any race this season but I’d certainly say ‘better than’ either way- you know what I’m saying. It’s just semantics) then you’ve got to say the Red Bull has also been dominant in races this season.

It’s really just the denial of that fact that some people constantly try to spin which is incredibly disingenuous.

Dominant doesn't apply to Red Bull not Mercedes this season. I don't think that's what Zippy meant anyway. But you can't deny Mercedes having a lot more pace this race, right? I would be worried if I was Red Bull/Verstappen.

As for that last part, just ignore it. I mean, you would have to be crazy to say Verstappen has been driving an inferior car every race this season. I know some will claim that, but then you know enough to not take anything that person says seriously...

Exactly! No doubt it was faster today, and has been for the last few races, although the weather, circumstance, and some bad calls has really nullified that so the results aren’t reflecting it at the moment. Going forward very intriguing and I wonder how much development space each team has left to find. Roll on the rest of the season!

[Dee]

As a RB fan, a frightening bit of data is the fastest laps

Bottas got fastest lap on lap 58 with 1:30:432

Max's fastest was on lap 53 with 1:32:759

Now I know that Max was not going for FP but that Merc could go that much faster if it wanted to is just...

Basically think Bottas was on easy mode all race, true pace of that car was not revealed at all

[JordanMugen]

Great job by Bottas, Verstappen, Perez and Leclerc.

Oh well, Mercedes binned Hamilton's podium there. I wonder how consequential that will be come the end of the year?

They had to take the conservative decision, the alternative of sliding off the track on worn tyres and into the gravel trap would have been far worse!

The original lap when Mercedes called to box would have been more optimal, but that was Hamilton's call.

[El Scorchio]

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

Don’t worry. It wasn’t your post I was responding to. If you classify today as dominant (and fair enough, that’s open to personal interpretation. I’m not sure I’d class either car as ‘dominant’ in any race this season but I’d certainly say ‘better than’ either way- you know what I’m saying. It’s just semantics) then you’ve got to say the Red Bull has also been dominant in races this season.

It’s really just the denial of that fact that some people constantly try to spin which is incredibly disingenuous.

I can understand that and can say that RB were dominant in Austria. What is disingenuous is Mercedes, Lewis and Toto constantly calling RB the faster car and package every chance they get since Silverstone as if it's some miracle that Mercedes get now getting poles and winning. That's what I cannot stand and it's coming from the team themselves, not even the fans

Agree to a point but that’s just the job of the teams isn’t it. All that bull**** politicking and half truths which come out of the mouths of all the team principals. I don’t trust a thing any of them says. Don’t forget they are also trying to sell F1 as a product and will say things to ramp up the drama.

Imagine if he just comes out and says ‘yup, we are going to wipe the floor with everyone.’ Then everyone would be calling him out for arrogance. None of them can win in a way as someone will always criticise what they say. Horner and Wolff have certainly both told numerous bare faced lies both this season and in the past.

[Mr.S]

I thought Mercedes should take the penalty in Mexico or Brazil & even there Lewis can climb back from 13-14 to 7-8 & get a few points. Turkey & USA should be 1-2 Mercedes & Lewis should have piled on 20 more points + fastest laps. Then even in Max wins in (Say) Mexico & gets 25 points, Lewis comes 7th or 8th & gets 4-6 points - Lewis is still ahead.

I wouldn't take Penalty in a Mercedes 1-2 track. RB was smart to take it in Sochi. Anyways, I agree RB need a couple of tenths worth of upgrades otherwise this will end with Hamilton winning by 20-25 points in the end. Maybe the Silverstone + Hungary fiasco will cost RB & Max - That could have been cushion to a huge Mercedes comeback which we are seeing.

Anyways it will be close contest but Mercedes advantage. I hope Max gets 3rd in USA - Because both Mclarens & Ferrari will be their about - He can easily fall to 5th or 6th if he makes a mistake.

[jurinius]

Red bull team appears to me being in the right tempo as title contender.

“I didn’t have gearshift problems, it was just like a message next to my number of what gear I would be, after one setting it was gone, it was not limiting the performance,” Verstappen clarified. => Clearly a performance control if my POV. => What I undesrtand is that without this limitation Max would have taken more risks trying to catch VB.

The key moment was Perez fighting against Lewis, and Lewis failed to pass. Lewis will probably ask the team to be more aggressive in choices for the remaining GP.

This telemetry analysis is also interesting : https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2021 ... fresh_ce=0

[El Scorchio]

Red bull team appears to me being in the right tempo as title contender.

“I didn’t have gearshift problems, it was just like a message next to my number of what gear I would be, after one setting it was gone, it was not limiting the performance,” Verstappen clarified. => Clearly a performance control if my POV. => What I undesrtand is that without this limitation Max would have taken more risks trying to catch VB.

The key moment was Perez fighting against Lewis, and Lewis failed to pass. Lewis will probably ask the team to be more aggressive in choices for the remaining GP.

This telemetry analysis is also interesting : https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2021 ... fresh_ce=0

100%. They should have gone like for like on strategy with Perez and put it in Hamilton’s hands on track in the faster car. In those circumstances it’s hard to see him finishing lower than third, or fourth absolute worst.

[JPower]

I was more excited today with Ferrari's race pace. It was evident from Friday that they were within a tenth of the leading pace. Once again though Ferrari strategists and pit crew did their best to undo all the good work. Does anyone know why Carlos was stationary for 8 seconds? Everything looked to be ok, pit crew all standing and watching the car. Leclerc should have been in right after Max did. He lost out big time because he was inching closer to him all the time before the stops.

Apparently Sainz was held up by a HAAS in the pit lane.

Leclerc should've been in but they agreed to gamble. It is what it is.

I agree, the pace is very promising and the new PU opens up possibilities for the team.

[ringo]

it is not looking bad for Mercedes. Now they have a new engine, they can put reliability concerns behind them.
6 points is nothing with six races left. only if the gap were greater than 7 should any team be concerned.

Do we see redbull needing another engine toward the end of the season, given that Max did lose one in silverstone?

I got a feeling that reliability will determine this championship.

Also this was the best place for mercedes to take the engine penalty. Now other track would have been more suitable. It sets them up nicely to just focus on racing to hunt Max.

This is easier mentally than winning with an old engine here, only to fall behind with a penalty later and lose points when its too close to the end.

[BlueCheetah66]

it is not looking bad for Mercedes. Now they have a new engine, they can put reliability concerns behind them.
6 points is nothing with six races left. only if the gap were greater than 7 should any team be concerned.

Do we see redbull needing another engine toward the end of the season, given that Max did lose one in silverstone?

I got a feeling that reliability will determine this championship.

Also this was the best place for mercedes to take the engine penalty. Now other track would have been more suitable. It sets them up nicely to just focus on racing to hunt Max.

This is easier mentally than winning with an old engine here, only to fall behind with a penalty later and lose points when its too close to the end.

I think Max's third engine is still fairly useable

[Tizz]

Everyone was slower on the new inters after the first lap as they just started graining. Once through the graining phase, everyone gained lots of pace. It was a just a straight forward bad call by the team as it was too late in the race after everyone else had gone through the pain.

Yes, but if would have not pushed as hard then he wouldn't have grained them. Max didn't grain his. On balance it could have been faster for Hamilton to go 0.5s slower on the first lap.

They didn’t give him any choice. They brought him out right in front of Gasly. Verstappen had all the space and time in the world to bring his up to temperature. Completely different scenario.

That was actually Hammi's own fault. He didn't want to pit earlier when he had a bigger window. They radioed just before his pitstop that this was his last chance to clear Gasly. It was argued somewhere that if he had pitted the first call, he would have been on the podium.

[Noble29]

I think the problem was communication. From what was played on the live feed [don't know what else, if anything, was said that we didn't hear] it was made to sound like Hamilton wanted to go to the end on his original tyres, but then near the end got the call saying 'it's the last lap before the window to Gasly has gone'. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton thought Gasly was the car behind, because there was no reference to losing places to Perez and Leclerc, so it was safe to pit and get to the end on a new set without dropping a position. That's why I think he was so accepting of the pit stop at the end compared to before that point.