Silly season 2024-2025

[Cs98]

CL is strggling with Sainz now. Who was not considered special going up against his many teammates. Verstappen, Norris, Kyvaat, Piere Gasly, Nico Hulkenberg.. Sainz never beat any of these guys like he is doing to CL now.
So CL clearly not as elite as some think.
There is no basis to compare LH and CL.
Just perceptions.
CL teammates: Grosejean, Erricson, past prime Vettel, Estaban Guitierez, Antonio Giovanasi, pascal wheirline. Nothing special there either and Zero reference point to Hamilton.
Vettel was his best teammate and now Sainz who is coming into his own.

Completely agree. The only reason he’s backed, is because he’s seen, or was, as Ferrari’s golden boy, but in reality, he’s far from it. Electric over one lap, I’d admit, but too inconsistent on a Sunday, and has already showcased himself as a bottler, who has crumbled under championship pressure, and when a big name is in his mirrors. He’s now being out driven by Sainz, who let’s be honest here, before this recency bias took over, was seen as a relatively mediocre driver. Hence, why Ferrari have shown him the door.

Throw in the anti-Hamilton brigade, who frequent many F1 forums, and you get this belief that CL will somehow destroy LH. I, just don’t see that happening at all.

Good for us then we don't have to speculate because this line-up is happening. But if we've learned anything from the Ham-Rus time it's that there will be a laundry list of excuses ready to go.

[CHT]

Antonelli is driving on April 16-17 in the W12 at Red Bull ring. Should give them a better understanding of where he is. Also hearing there’s no chance of Vettel at Mercedes.

I will be surprised if Merc is putting everything on hold just to wait for Antonelli. 2025 is crucial year for development, not a year for Antonelli to discover the wonders of F1.

"I think with all the drivers I've been lucky enough to work with over the year, their feedback is vital. Very often, different drivers will be more sensitive to different areas. For example, Sebastian Vettel and Max have one thing in common, in that they are both very sensitive to the tires," - Newey

Complete opposite, it's the least important year for development in this decade with the massive rule change coming at the end.

In the last 20 years or so, F1 team domination always start when there is a major regulation change. Merc(LH), RBR(Vettel), RBR (Max). Any teams that get it right out of the box in 2026 is likely to dominate the sports for some years to come. So how is 2025 be least important year for car development?

[Cs98]

I will be surprised if Merc is putting everything on hold just to wait for Antonelli. 2025 is crucial year for development, not a year for Antonelli to discover the wonders of F1.

"I think with all the drivers I've been lucky enough to work with over the year, their feedback is vital. Very often, different drivers will be more sensitive to different areas. For example, Sebastian Vettel and Max have one thing in common, in that they are both very sensitive to the tires," - Newey

Complete opposite, it's the least important year for development in this decade with the massive rule change coming at the end.

In the last 20 years or so, F1 team domination always start when there is a major regulation change. Merc(LH), RBR(Vettel), RBR (Max). Any teams that get it right out of the box in 2026 is likely to dominate the sports for some years to come. So how is 2025 be least important year for car development?

The 2025 car that Antonelli would be driving would not be getting much development at all, all the money will be spent on the 2026 project in the background. That car would not be getting driven in the simulator by the drivers probably until early 2026, and even then you have Russell and experienced sim drivers who can lead on that. All in all 2025 is a great season to bring in an inexperienced driver provided you are not competing for a championship that year, which Merc is likely not. Then for 2026, when it really is important, he will be up to speed and used to F1.

[Dunlay]

Complete opposite, it's the least important year for development in this decade with the massive rule change coming at the end.

In the last 20 years or so, F1 team domination always start when there is a major regulation change. Merc(LH), RBR(Vettel), RBR (Max). Any teams that get it right out of the box in 2026 is likely to dominate the sports for some years to come. So how is 2025 be least important year for car development?

The 2025 car that Antonelli would be driving would not be getting much development at all, all the money will be spent on the 2026 project in the background. That car would not be getting driven in the simulator by the drivers probably until early 2026, and even then you have Russell and experienced sim drivers who can lead on that. All in all 2025 is a great season to bring in an inexperienced driver provided you are not competing for a championship that year, which Merc is likely not. Then for 2026, when it really is important, he will be up to speed and used to F1.

I had already replied to @CHT on this topic in the Mercedes team thread. He continues to stick to his point in different threads.

viewtopic.php?p=1205377#p1205377

[CHT]

In the last 20 years or so, F1 team domination always start when there is a major regulation change. Merc(LH), RBR(Vettel), RBR (Max). Any teams that get it right out of the box in 2026 is likely to dominate the sports for some years to come. So how is 2025 be least important year for car development?

The 2025 car that Antonelli would be driving would not be getting much development at all, all the money will be spent on the 2026 project in the background. That car would not be getting driven in the simulator by the drivers probably until early 2026, and even then you have Russell and experienced sim drivers who can lead on that. All in all 2025 is a great season to bring in an inexperienced driver provided you are not competing for a championship that year, which Merc is likely not. Then for 2026, when it really is important, he will be up to speed and used to F1.

I had already replied to @CHT on this topic in the Mercedes team thread. He continues to stick to his point in different threads.

viewtopic.php?p=1205377#p1205377

According to guys with real F1 driving experience they are all saying it is important to have experienced driver before big regulation change.

Perhaps you are romanicizing that Toto can repeat what Ron Dennis did when he put rookie right alongside Alonso in Mclaren.

I am not a Merc fan, if the team choose to go with a 17 years old driver for 2025, we just have to see how that will turnout.

@23:30

[dren]

Disqualification from the championship and 100M fine?

[BanMeToo]

Disqualification from the championship and 100M fine?

Lol

[CHT]

Disqualification from the championship and 100M fine?

Those are some dark times in F1

[TeamKoolGreen]

Funny how it was seen as the main reason why Hamilton went to Mercedes originally. Because it was a works engine team.

And yet now there's this narrative that nobody wants the Mercedes 2nd seat.

The Missed Apex boys made a good point with Alonso though. With Russell there , he has some big competition qualifying wise. And if he went 50/50 or worse vs Russell in qualy , it might devalue him as a driver for the near future. At Aston, he doesn't have that problem. Even though Vettel did Then again , maybe Stroll isn't getting enough credit for beating Vettel those many times. And ALO's qualifying is more elite than we think

[AR3-GP]

Funny how it was seen as the main reason why Hamilton went to Mercedes originally. Because it was a works engine team.

And yet now there's this narrative that nobody wants the Mercedes 2nd seat.

Mercedes is looking for someone to warm the seat for Antonelli or Verstappen. That's why nobody wants the seat. Merc won't give a long term contract.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Funny how it was seen as the main reason why Hamilton went to Mercedes originally. Because it was a works engine team.

And yet now there's this narrative that nobody wants the Mercedes 2nd seat.

Mercedes is looking for someone to warm the seat for Antonelli or Verstappen. That's why nobody wants the seat. Merc won't give a long term contract.

Yeah but it's still the works Mercedes seat. Maybe Russell won't want to be there long term anymore.

[CHT]

Funny how it was seen as the main reason why Hamilton went to Mercedes originally. Because it was a works engine team.

And yet now there's this narrative that nobody wants the Mercedes 2nd seat.

Mercedes is looking for someone to warm the seat for Antonelli or Verstappen. That's why nobody wants the seat. Merc won't give a long term contract.

Yeah but it's still the works Mercedes seat. Maybe Russell won't want to be there long term anymore.

It usually takes around 3 years for f1 rookies to reach its full potential, so the most logical progression should be to put Antonelli in team like Williams, give him some time and room to make all the necessary rookie mistakes and to learn the bolts and nuts about F1, while works team engage a more experienced driver to lead the team in the right direction.

At 17, he should continue to enjoy his childhood instead of being dressed up to be an ambassador for Merc and sponsors. Putting too much pressure on him (as LH replacement) will ruin him because fans will be expecting him to be able to challenge GR from the onset like what LH did when he join Mclaren. But in comparison LH was 21 years old when he got his first test in F1 car before joining Mclaren as F1 driver.

I think Merc is too big a team to be taking such a risk because there is really nothing to gain from rushing Antonelli to fill the seat other than amusement.

[AR3-GP]

Mercedes is looking for someone to warm the seat for Antonelli or Verstappen. That's why nobody wants the seat. Merc won't give a long term contract.

Yeah but it's still the works Mercedes seat. Maybe Russell won't want to be there long term anymore.

It usually takes around 3 years for f1 rookies to reach its full potential, so the most logical progression should be to put Antonelli in team like Williams, give him some time and room to make all the necessary rookie mistakes and to learn the bolts and nuts about F1, while works team engage a more experienced driver to lead the team in the right direction.

At 17, he should continue to enjoy his childhood instead of being dressed up to be an ambassador for Merc and sponsors. Putting too much pressure on him (as LH replacement) will ruin him because fans will be expecting him to be able to challenge GR from the onset like what LH did when he join Mclaren. But in comparison LH was 21 years old when he got his first test in F1 car before joining Mclaren as F1 driver.

I think Merc is too big a team to be taking such a risk because there is really nothing to gain from rushing Antonelli to fill the seat other than amusement.

Talent is talent. I think he has that. No media narrative is going to change that in the long run.

[Dunlay]

Mercedes is looking for someone to warm the seat for Antonelli or Verstappen. That's why nobody wants the seat. Merc won't give a long term contract.

Yeah but it's still the works Mercedes seat. Maybe Russell won't want to be there long term anymore.

It usually takes around 3 years for f1 rookies to reach its full potential, so the most logical progression should be to put Antonelli in team like Williams.

Imagine Ron Dennis doing that to Lewis in 2007. Putting him in a back marker. Imagine Red Bull not choosing to put Max in Red Bull in 2016 Spain because he was just 18 and continued with Kvyat. How about Charles getting in Ferrari with just one year at Sauber and then his performances in 2029. How about Lando and Piastri's debut at McLaren. Look at Ollie Bearman's performance in Jeddah for Ferrari.

It's ridiculous to put talented young drivers in back marker teams with that beaten concept of "giving them time to grow". It makes them frustrated and we don't get to see what their natural talent can do in a good machinery. Age doesn't matter as these young drivers would be in racing machines since they are like 3 or 4 years old kids.

[CHT]

Yeah but it's still the works Mercedes seat. Maybe Russell won't want to be there long term anymore.

It usually takes around 3 years for f1 rookies to reach its full potential, so the most logical progression should be to put Antonelli in team like Williams.

Imagine Ron Dennis doing that to Lewis in 2007. Putting him in a back marker. Imagine Red Bull not choosing to put Max in Red Bull in 2016 Spain because he was just 18 and continued with Kvyat. How about Lando and Piastri's debut at McLaren. Look at Ollie Bearman's performance in Jeddah for Ferrari.

It's ridiculous to put talented young drivers in back marker teams with that beaten concept of "giving them time to grow". It makes them frustrated and we don't get to see what their natural talent can do in a good machinery.

LH was 21 when he steps into F1 car

Max started his career in junior team str just like vettel before promoted to the top team.

Alonso started with Minardi

Mclaren was fighting in mid and back field not a championship team. There is little or no expectation