2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[motobaleno]

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

I'dont't think so. To me it seems more a cosmetic move...heating the engine (uniformly evidently) from outside it is very different from real operational conditions (even for the only aspect of temperature distribution). Moreover, if Merceds actually implemented this second minichamber with capillar channel communication and the channel will not close by thermal expansion but in some way termodinamically isolated by combustion pressure wave propagation, the engine will pass the new controls again

[FrukostScones]

Weird.

[Luscion]

from AMuS https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -red-bull/

The aim of the other manufacturers is to find out whether Mercedes' power unit complies with the rules. There are now voices of experts who do not believe that the increased value is possible through material expansion alone. If there are moving elements in the combustion chamber, that would be illegal. Such are the statutes.

After the meeting of PUAC members, the FIA is likely to seek to adapt the current regulations. There are various options for the World Automobile Federation. A modification of sensor-based monitoring could be up for debate, as well as the introduction of an operational test.

However, that would not clarify whether the Mercedes engine is legal or not. Here the FIA must fundamentally decide whether the trick remains permitted. The consequences would be far-reaching. Regardless of which direction the pendulum ultimately swings. If the FIA bans the trick, Mercedes would have to be granted the opportunity to rework the power unit at potentially great expense. Should the engine continue to be declared legal, the competitors would have to follow suit in order to catch up performance-wise. That would also incur costs.

[FittingMechanics]

I doubt FIA would allow 8 cars to be DSQ in Melbourne and first races. If the test is being changed, it is either because the engine is legal or alternatively, the change won't come into effect immediately.

Maybe it will be a "informational test" so FIA can see how much expansion is there.

I'm also very curious what is the compression ratio (and other things) of other engines at working temperatures. Strict policing of this could mean all of them fail.

[Sphere3758]

I doubt FIA would allow 8 cars to be DSQ in Melbourne and first races. If the test is being changed, it is either because the engine is legal or alternatively, the change won't come into effect immediately.

Maybe it will be a "informational test" so FIA can see how much expansion is there.

I'm also very curious what is the compression ratio (and other things) of other engines at working temperatures. Strict policing of this could mean all of them fail.

on the flip side, you wouldn't think that all the other teams are foolish enough to suggest an alternate test which would still let Merc have an advantage ?

[Badger]

Not sure how the heating of the engine really solves anything. I would expect several manufacturers to be over 16:1 due to thermal expansion, and for me that is perfectly normal given how the test has always been done. However, if there's some other trick potentially involving moving parts (seems likely if the 18:1 rumour for Merc is true) that needs to be looked at separately.

Would there be a distinction between someone at 16.5 vs someone at 18? Only if you consider intention which is a dubious standard in F1.

[Matt2725]

The whole thing is a farce seemingly being cheerleaded most heavily by Audi.

I don't normally advocate such things, but in such a position I would be having the FIA stare down the barrel of losing a team plus engine supply for 3 others at the start of a season.

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

Or more likely they couldn't get it to work reliably, so have joined the "ban it" bandwagon.

[Peter Ian Staker]

The whole thing is a farce seemingly being cheerleaded most heavily by Audi.

I don't normally advocate such things, but in such a position I would be having the FIA stare down the barrel of losing a team plus engine supply for 3 others at the start of a season.

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

Or more likely they couldn't get it to work reliably, so have joined the "ban it" bandwagon.

In fairness to Audi, I would be pissed too if somebody bypassed a rule written specifically to give me a leg up compared to manufacturers with more experience.

Not sure how the heating of the engine really solves anything. I would expect several manufacturers to be over 16:1 due to thermal expansion, and for me that is perfectly normal given how the test has always been done. However, if there's some other trick potentially involving moving parts (seems likely if the 18:1 rumour for Merc is true) that needs to be looked at separately.

Would there be a distinction between someone at 16.5 vs someone at 18? Only if you consider intention which is a dubious standard in F1.

Are we sure that the compression ratio always increases at operating temperature, tricks or not?
It's not like the piston is the only thing in an engine that expands with heat.

[Matt2725]

Thing is, what's the guarantee any team will be strictly below 16:1 at all times?

It would be sweet and hilarious irony if Ferreri and Audi especially were both found to exceed the stated compression ratio under warm testing.

[bluechris]

The whole thing is a farce seemingly being cheerleaded most heavily by Audi.

I don't normally advocate such things, but in such a position I would be having the FIA stare down the barrel of losing a team plus engine supply for 3 others at the start of a season.

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

Or more likely they couldn't get it to work reliably, so have joined the "ban it" bandwagon.

So you mean Ferrari must had left the sport with the TD39? or better to use the Veto? MCLaren would had left also for the FlexyWings? i have many examples where a team was correct according to the rules but their "Innovation" of the rules was not.
Its the 1st time the last years that an "Innovation" from MB will be banned... so far that was huppening only for all the other manufactures and many people in this forum called them "Cheaters"
To me its a correct decision ... again if its true because maybe we will see a Solomonic solution from FIA and we are back in square one.

[FrukostScones]

Not sure how the heating of the engine really solves anything. I would expect several manufacturers to be over 16:1 due to thermal expansion, and for me that is perfectly normal given how the test has always been done. However, if there's some other trick potentially involving moving parts (seems likely if the 18:1 rumour for Merc is true) that needs to be looked at separately.

Would there be a distinction between someone at 16.5 vs someone at 18? Only if you consider intention which is a dubious standard in F1.

good question , who defines "normal" versus "abnormal" expansion. 16.1, 16.5 17...
If materials and designs are legal according to the rules and the Merc was in good faith that these rules are the rules(and also in contact with the FIA during the whole designorocess), then it should not matter.
maybe Audi build an engine that measures hot at 16:1 clean.

[fourmula1]

The whole thing is a farce seemingly being cheerleaded most heavily by Audi.

I don't normally advocate such things, but in such a position I would be having the FIA stare down the barrel of losing a team plus engine supply for 3 others at the start of a season.

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

Or more likely they couldn't get it to work reliably, so have joined the "ban it" bandwagon.

So you mean Ferrari must had left the sport with the TD39? or better to use the Veto? MCLaren would had left also for the FlexyWings? i have many examples where a team was correct according to the rules but their "Innovation" of the rules was not.
Its the 1st time the last years that an "Innovation" from MB will be banned... so far that was huppening only for all the other manufactures and many people in this forum called them "Cheaters"
To me its a correct decision ... again if its true because maybe we will see a Solomonic solution from FIA and we are back in square one.

Engine mode quali/race? DAS? FRIC? 2021 floor change?
---
I'm out of the loop on this whole compression ratio saga.....do we know anything for certain? Any links to official FIA statements on this stuff?

[Matt2725]

The whole thing is a farce seemingly being cheerleaded most heavily by Audi.

I don't normally advocate such things, but in such a position I would be having the FIA stare down the barrel of losing a team plus engine supply for 3 others at the start of a season.

Red Bull was enough smart, they know this loophole is too easy to be closed, so they didn't waste huge resources developing it. Mercedes is now screwed, their engine will be useless.

Or more likely they couldn't get it to work reliably, so have joined the "ban it" bandwagon.

So you mean Ferrari must had left the sport with the TD39? or better to use the Veto? MCLaren would had left also for the FlexyWings? i have many examples where a team was correct according to the rules but their "Innovation" of the rules was not.
Its the 1st time the last years that an "Innovation" from MB will be banned... so far that was huppening only for all the other manufactures and many people in this forum called them "Cheaters"
To me its a correct decision ... again if its true because maybe we will see a Solomonic solution from FIA and we are back in square one.

Banning an engine a month out from the first race that you explicitly told them was legal, would be farcical beyond belief. It's not even remotely comparable to Ferrari flexing their floor or McLaren flexing the wings.

[Bill]

The race podcast are now quite they were gloating like merc have already won the title,while overlooking the fact that compression ratio was a one of key compromises established manufacturers has to relinquish in order for audi and Cadillac to join.so the whole point that fia may have allowed merc run a high ratio does not make sense.they is no two tier f1

[dialtone]

This RBR change will provide just the right entertainment here. The gymnastics of some folks that were pointing fingers at Audi are going to now have to justify this switch.

Hodgkinson was extremely arrogant on launch day, giving lessons to other teams and sounding pissed, and now he does this? LMAO is all I can say.

Obligatory: FIA needs to have a hard look at themselves, this is drama of their own creation by their own inability to police properly their own ruleset. Shocking amateurism.