Ferrari F60

[mistrx]

Domenicali says that they won't use KERS because of safety issues and reliability

Domenicali in interview for Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74499

Q. Explain what happened after the red flag in Malaysia. We saw the team preparing Raikkonen's car to go back out, but then we saw Kimi eating ice cream in the back of the garage.

SD: We had a problem on KERS. Because we had time, we tried to understand the problem exactly, but then it was a problem that was not good to go out with. That's why I can say that we will not use KERS this weekend. It is a decision that we have taken because we need to understand the system exactly from a safety point of view, and a reliability point of view.

But I just donť buy it, I think the real reason is that their tyre wear connected with KERS is far too much high. They just want to try non-KERS car and evaluate, whether they can get better balance (as they can play with ballast) and lower tyre wear.

[imightbewrong]

[ISLAMATRON]

Domenicali says that they won't use KERS because of safety issues and reliability

Domenicali in interview for Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74499

Q. Explain what happened after the red flag in Malaysia. We saw the team preparing Raikkonen's car to go back out, but then we saw Kimi eating ice cream in the back of the garage.

SD: We had a problem on KERS. Because we had time, we tried to understand the problem exactly, but then it was a problem that was not good to go out with. That's why I can say that we will not use KERS this weekend. It is a decision that we have taken because we need to understand the system exactly from a safety point of view, and a reliability point of view.

But I just donť buy it, I think the real reason is that their tyre wear connected with KERS is far too much high. They just want to try non-KERS car and evaluate, whether they can get better balance (as they can play with ballast) and lower tyre wear.

Bullshit,... we all saw KIMI's KERS failure and that the smoke was coming from the front of the cockpit... much further forward then where Mclaren keeps their batteries(front of sidepod)... the batteries are not messing up the weight balance that much.

It is obvious that they cant get enough cooling to where they have placed the KERS batteries and that is why they continue to overheat the batteries. The problem is KERS unreliability because of lack of cooling not tire degradation issues.

[mistrx]

Bullshit,... we all saw KIMI's KERS failure and that the smoke was coming from the front of the cockpit... much further forward then where Mclaren keeps their batteries(front of sidepod)... the batteries are not messing up the weight balance that much.

It is obvious that they cant get enough cooling to where they have placed the KERS batteries and that is why they continue to overheat the batteries. The problem is KERS unreliability because of lack of cooling not tire degradation issues.

I wasn't speaking about batteries messing up the balance. i was pointing to overall balance. take KERS out, you've got 30-40 kg of ballast to play with. or it isn't that case? and what about tyre degradation caused by the use of KERS - extra 80HP per lap? and what about lower CoG? sure it is higher with KERS onboard. also without KERS they can use bigger fuel tank IMO.

if anyone tells me that using KERS doesn't have effect on the tyres..IMO I just dont think that's true.

[DaveKillens]

Don't forget that after Malaysia, the Ferrari brass held an emergency meeting to address their shortfall in the first two races. My assumption is that they decided to abandon anything but necessary systems to simplify and eliminate potential problems. What good is a KERS system if you make a dumb decision for rain tires? Actually, that's why Schumacher won't be in China. Rumor is that he was part of the decision making process to change Kimi's tires.
The same goes for KERS. For Ferrari, right now, they desperately need to get things right, and get their focus on winning. KERS, although probably mature enough to be used, only adds a fraction in performance, and is just one more system that could go wrong, and distract the team from it's present goal of just finishing well.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see them using the lollipop system.

[RacingManiac]

The rumor was also denied by Willi Weber....to be fair even if it did the call was a gamble, and in that case it was the wrong gamble. Having been to that part of the world, the weather prediction used by the team is probably good for 5 min window which is 2-3 laps. There was about as good a chance as it will start downpouring then and there or it wouldn't rain a drop for another 5 min. And there is also a chance that if it turns monsoon right away you could be off the track and into the tire barrier in half a lap, so you could try to wait and see for the tire change immediately after the rain starts, or try to beat the weather prediction. They chose the latter and lost the gamble that day. Always looks easier afterward, but with weather its always a tough call. Can't tell you how many times we got screwed by weather in Formula SAE in deciding when to go out for autoX.....

[ISLAMATRON]

Bullshit,... we all saw KIMI's KERS failure and that the smoke was coming from the front of the cockpit... much further forward then where Mclaren keeps their batteries(front of sidepod)... the batteries are not messing up the weight balance that much.

It is obvious that they cant get enough cooling to where they have placed the KERS batteries and that is why they continue to overheat the batteries. The problem is KERS unreliability because of lack of cooling not tire degradation issues.

I wasn't speaking about batteries messing up the balance. i was pointing to overall balance. take KERS out, you've got 30-40 kg of ballast to play with. or it isn't that case? and what about tyre degradation caused by the use of KERS - extra 80HP per lap? and what about lower CoG? sure it is higher with KERS onboard. also without KERS they can use bigger fuel tank IMO.

if anyone tells me that using KERS doesn't have effect on the tyres..IMO I just dont think that's true.

The 80 extra Hp dont hurt the tires at all... if they mash the KERS button and spin the tires it would make them slower not faster... they wouldnt use it like that... they only mash the KERS button when the extra 80hp would not induce wheelspin. I think the SECU wont even let you engage KERS under 100kph.

The batteries are by far the heaviest KERS component, the motor/generator has been cut down to about 5-8kg... and it really isnt that high, its actually lower than the crankshaft of the motor.

With the batteries under the drivers feet Ferrari may be the most well balnced of the KERS cars, but they just cant seem to keep them cool.

[CMSMJ1]

@ Islamatron

Do you have anything to support your battery placement ideas?

You seem very sure and so if you have seen some pics we haven't....come on! Share them

thanks

[mistrx]

The 80 extra Hp dont hurt the tires at all... if they mash the KERS button and spin the tires it would make them slower not faster... they wouldnt use it like that... they only mash the KERS button when the extra 80hp would not induce wheelspin. I think the SECU wont even let you engage KERS under 100kph.

The batteries are by far the heaviest KERS component, the motor/generator has been cut down to about 5-8kg... and it really isnt that high, its actually lower than the crankshaft of the motor.

With the batteries under the drivers feet Ferrari may be the most well balnced of the KERS cars, but they just cant seem to keep them cool.

that sounds reasonable. but I still think the negative effects of KERS (weight distribution, CoG, fuel tank, tyre wear) - even if they are small - can't be taken out of the final "performance" equation.

of course the reliability is very important and I can understand, they don't want to screw up whole race just because KERS "glitch". but IMO they want to try the car without KERS as well. the DD cars have no KERS. I know, the DD plays an important role, but it shows that KERS isn't so beneficial for Ferrari ATM IMO.

[ISLAMATRON]

that sounds reasonable. but I still think the negative effects of KERS (weight distribution, CoG, fuel tank, tyre wear) - even if they are small - can't be taken out of the final "performance" equation.

of course the reliability is very important and I can understand, they don't want to screw up whole race just because KERS "glitch". but IMO they want to try the car without KERS as well. the DD cars have no KERS. I know, the DD plays an important role, but it shows that KERS isn't so beneficial for Ferrari ATM IMO.

They tested without the KERS in preseason testing and quickly realized it made them quicker & faster, Right now they are the 2nd fastest non DD car behind RBR, without KERS they might be fully behind BMW and possibly behind Renault & McLaren.

They are making so many mistakes they are getting confused as to whether or not it is raining outside. But to be fair they almost had no other option in Malaysia... except for maybe putting KIMI on Options which may have lasted a little longer.

[bonjon1979]

There is some crazy talk on here. Stefano Domenicali has come out and said that they aren't running KERS this weekend because of reliability concerns and people think that is is a trick. Despite the fact that the KERS system has consistently failed, despite the fact that Shanghai is one of the courses that is supposedly to be most advantageous to the system, so much so that even Kubica is considering using it despite the weight penalties. Despite the fact that Ferrari have consistently said that the KERS system is overall beneficial to their times. (Remember that thing called testing, where they would've compared their speed, tyre degradation etc with and without KERS.) Even with all this people still believe that it's a secret ploy...it's crazy! Has no one heard of Occam's Razor!!!


There are pics of the Mclaren battery placement on F1-live.com. You can clearly see that they're encased in the base of the sidepods. From what I understand about Ferrari's batteries, they're underneath/behind the drivers seat. I have seen a graphical representation showing them being taken out from underneath the car in a type of cartridge that drops out. I can't really be arsed to go and find them, but the truth is out there...

[ISLAMATRON]

beneath/behind the drivers seat huh? I can buy that... but that smoke sure did look like it was coming from the footwell somewhere.

[FLC]

There are pics of the Mclaren battery placement on F1-live.com. You can clearly see that they're encased in the base of the sidepods. From what I understand about Ferrari's batteries, they're underneath/behind the drivers seat. I have seen a graphical representation showing them being taken out from underneath the car in a type of cartridge that drops out. I can't really be arsed to go and find them, but the truth is out there...

It's here: http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 6/638.html

[andartop]

Just to set the record straight: MS will not be at Shangai because Ferrari KNOW whenever he is present something very bad happens to Kimi. Just check it if you don't believe me.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Just to set the record straight: MS will not be at Shangai because Ferrari KNOW whenever he is present something very bad happens to Kimi. Just check it if you don't believe me.

I dunno, I think Karma makes the world go round...

Seriously tho, while I can't check the validity of that comment atm (I really should be doing my dissertation!) It does seems from memory that you may well be correct.