Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[clarkiesyeah]

It sounds like Christian Horner is blaming Webber. It stinks. I was listening to Horner make excuses for Vettel, i've never noticed it before but the guy has a "snivelling rat" persona when being clearly dis-honest.
Maybe he should get Newey to develop him a new spine ready for Canada.

Webber is s decent guy, like he says, "hard but fair". sebastian Vettel is a reckless and increasingly dangerous little boy. Horner should take him by the ear lug and make him get a haircut. Floppy haired hoon!

[Giblet]

To his credit, he says he asks of his drivers to give each other lots of room, and even though Vettel hit Webber, Webber didn't leave that room.

Whether we like or not, Webber according to his boss should have left more room.

I just wish that Vettel showed some race craft, I have yet to see the kind of stuff from him expected of a wunderkid, when THE BOSS seems to demonstrate it nearly every race.

[myurr]

I liked that actually. It seems to me Hamilton is getting "grounded" sort of. He drove a nice race without mistakes and got the win. But he is capable of putting things in relation. If he manages to build up on that he is only going to get better. Kudos to him.

The race, after all, was great to watch. Turkey is one of the more entertaining events. Having 2 team battles for the lead in one race is something I haven't seen in ages. Thumbs up.

It's almost as if he's learnt from Button how to carry himself, to be relaxed and quietly self confident. I never had a problem with his attitude but if he can successfully merge his raw emotion and fire in his belly with the inner calm and peace that Button seems to have then that can only make him stronger as a driver.

Cracking drive from both McLaren boys today. The Red Bull may still have a slight advantage in qualifying but that McLaren was definitely the better race car today. The front end on that car was so much stronger than the Red Bull. Bodes well for Canada!

[WhiteBlue]

I agree with the initial points andartop. The point I disagree is the assessment of who wasn't giving enough room.

Webber never left enough room for a clean pass in the first place so that Vettel had to run with the left wheels on the white line to squeeze through. He naturally did not stay there when he had made the pass stick and was ahead. So he immediately with getting ahead took a drift away from the white line. After that he never changed his line again. He did not turn into Webber as many people have said. It was the earlier move away from the white line that eventually led to the contact.

Under the circumstances of team mates passing Webber should have conceded the racing line to Vettel as soon as Vettel was ahead. Webber obviously tried to force Vettel to complete the pass on the dirty side of the corner to make him back out again. It was unnecessary to defend that hard against a team mate in a 1-2 situation.

They both drove very uncompromising and had a racing accident as a result. Vettel suffered more from it but I think that Webber on the long run will suffer more from the incident. Vettel is the future for Red Bull and they surely will not want to loose him to a rival. They will rather let Webber go if it turns out the two guys cannot accommodate each other when the teams needs them to.

[andartop]

Well, WB, you see Webber did actually leave plenty of room to begin with: all Vettel had to do was dive on the outside rather than try to squeeze on the (dirty and marginally narrow) inside. Webber changed his line once, got the middle-but-slightly-to-the-left line and stayed there, as he had every right to do. If Button could make this work from the outside on LH why shouldn't Vettel?

[D'Leh]

Webber never left enough room for a clean pass in the first place so that Vettel had to run with the left wheels on the white line to squeeze through. He naturally did not stay there when he had made the pass stick and was ahead.

Webber always left enough space for Vettel. Problem is, that Vettel didn't actually make the pass "stick" but drove right into Webber when he was alongside. I don't know what he was thinking. But if he assumed Webber had gone then he misjudged the situation. And that's his mistake. Had he not misjudged the situation he likely would have made the pass stick. But the way he did he screwed it up.

[Giblet]

WB you can see from the still frame photos above that Vettel had enough room, and Mark owed him no favors.

You simply sound biased on this incident. Webber had no personal reason to open the door more to him.

Vettel, if he was a smart racer and not just fast when alone, would have got close, stayed there, and passed Webber later with the tow.

Too much youthful exuberance and he paid the price.

[Pup]

Vettel has developed a fondness for this kind of slashing maneuver. Here's what Hamilton said about the incident earlier in the race...

Eddie: Were you at all surprised with the move Vettel pulled on you?

Lewis: I was very very surprised. I mean, I think we... travelling at those kinds of speeds you have to be sensible and you probably heard it on the radio - I came and said there was a dangerous move because.... I was trying to go down the outside of him and as I was alongside he erratically turned towards me, and considering that the next corner is a left hander, there is no reason to turn right, and I guess he tried to do the same... he did the exact same thing with Mark, and unfortunately took himself out. But I think it was a little bit unfortunate for Mark as he drove a great race - he's done great for the last few races and is performing well, qualified poll. I'm glad he was able to finish.

Vettel has become quite the little punk, I think.

[djos]

Let's not forget about Petrov, he drove a barnstormetr of race today, handled the pressure from Alonso very well, and was unlucky with the puncture, expect to see more good stuff here

Indeed, I too was very impressed with Petrov, he is maturing well and was very unlucky with that puncture.

[clarkiesyeah]

Vettel has developed a fondness for this kind of slashing maneuver. Here's what Hamilton said about the incident earlier in the race...

Eddie: Were you at all surprised with the move Vettel pulled on you?

Lewis: I was very very surprised. I mean, I think we... travelling at those kinds of speeds you have to be sensible and you probably heard it on the radio - I came and said there was a dangerous move because.... I was trying to go down the outside of him and as I was alongside he erratically turned towards me, and considering that the next corner is a left hander, there is no reason to turn right, and I guess he tried to do the same... he did the exact same thing with Mark, and unfortunately took himself out. But I think it was a little bit unfortunate for Mark as he drove a great race - he's done great for the last few races and is performing well, qualified poll. I'm glad he was able to finish.

Vettel has become quite the little punk, I think.

+1
Yep, Little baby Seb has been listening to too much of the hype about himself, he actually believed it and ended up punching above his own weight. The problem is, Horner's wrapping him up in cotton wool and pampering him to the point of not giving the little "punk" the admonishment he so richly deserves. Instead he hugs him and eludes to the whole thing being marks fault.

If you reward that kind of behaviour it will come back to bite you in the rear diffuser. Be warned Horner.

[GTO]

Webber left slightly more than a car width to his left for Vettel to get by & didn't close the door on him. I don't believe he has to move over & gift Vettel the racing line even if Vettel's car had half a car length lead. IMO, Webber has the right to maintain his chosen line until he is fully passed by Vettel, which Vettel clearly had not done. Vettle should have waited until his rear wheel had passed Webber's front wheel to start moving over to the right. Glad that Webber was able to continue & get 3rd. Too bad for young Vettel & hope this will be a learning experience.
=D>
Conversely, after Button took the lead on Hammy, I thought Button moved too far to the right in his approach to the upcoming left, giving Hammy oportunity to get a better line also into the corner & not have to brake as much, therefore able to take the lead back from Button. I feel it was a mistake Button made.

[Pandamasque]

Under the circumstances of team mates passing Webber should have conceded the racing line to Vettel as soon as Vettel was ahead. Webber obviously tried to force Vettel to complete the pass on the dirty side of the corner to make him back out again. It was unnecessary to defend that hard against a team mate in a 1-2 situation.

He was never ahead. Having the rear wheels against someone's sidepod is side-by-side, not ahead by any stretch of imagination.

Let's not forget about Petrov, he drove a barnstormetr of race today, handled the pressure from Alonso very well, and was unlucky with the puncture, expect to see more good stuff here

Indeed, I too was very impressed with Petrov, he is maturing well and was very unlucky with that puncture.

+1 that as his best weekend. He finished higher in China than he could finish in Turkey, but this time he was really close to Robert.

[WhiteBlue]

Well, WB, you see Webber did actually leave plenty of room to begin with: all Vettel had to do was dive on the outside rather than try to squeeze on the (dirty and marginally narrow) inside. Webber changed his line once, got the middle-but-slightly-to-the-left line and stayed there, as he had every right to do. If Button could make this work from the outside on LH why shouldn't Vettel?

Webber initially went completely to the left to defend there and Vettel only decided to dive down the inside when Webber decided to move from the left side back to the racing line. The thing that is difficult to decide from the two in car shots is the line Webber took after he moved from the left back towards the racing line. As soon as he realized Vettel took the inside he did not complete his move towards the right and it actually looks like he even came back left to make it very tight for Vettel who was taking to the white line to squeeze through. I will upload some pics to study that.



here is Webber absolutely to the left side before the crest



here he moves back towards the racing line



this looks like initially there is space for Vettel



here the space is actually narrower









Vettel approaches left



the gap gets still wider



the gap gets closed down again



Vettel gets squeezed on the white line



still fat on the white line with the left wheels



drifting right



continue to drift right

[djos]

if anything, bring up back the video and tell us exactly where you see mark move. I bet you can't find it.

Here you go:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqwx7w6i1HQ[/youtube]

Watch the white line to the left. Webber is definately getting closer to it. Webber comes out of turn 12 at 1.40 then starts to move accross at 1.42.

Are you blind, you can clearly see Vettel moving away from the white line into Marks Path!!! [-X

[andrew]

Try attacking the post, not the poster. Attacks on other posters are pathetic and childish.

When I watch it, I see Webber squeezing Vettel. Funny that Horner also says that Webber did not give Vettel enough space.

For me this is 100% Webbers fault and I am not changing my opinion for all the tea in China. [-(