2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

Mark Hughes:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... -struggle/

[dialtone]

I know why the delta is off in the lap from Lando.

The algorithm for delta in f1 tempo is the same as mine, I chatted a bit with the author on reddit a couple years ago.

Basically to smooth the delta it first tries to match the start and end of the laps so they get stretched, then interpolation to match the data points and avoid jitter.

Unfortunately when laps go off, like lando pitting, they get stretched wrong and the gaps in the delta becomes incorrect.

I would need to change the behavior of the code there to know the true gap.

[Ir3NiCuS]

While this is accurate ( i was looking at telemetry as well) keep in mind that the comparison was against LEC's MED lap and LEC himself improved his time by 7-tenths on his soft run right after. so it would have been close between NOR and LEC if NOR had completed his lap

No it is against Leclercs Soft lap... I did a direct comparison between Lando's lap before he aborted and the soft lap Leclerc completed moments later. The telemetry I posted for both drivers was from Lap 9. I just totally forgot that when Tomsky was talking about the gap. But it is understandable because we were 5 tenths up after S2 on the medium time. This is why I say that he did not need to go faster in Sector 3, he needed to ease off a little.

https://i.ibb.co/RH3GQHF/Lap9-Softs.png

It was a mighty lap.

Something is off in the telemetry I think.

Lando was 0.032 faster in S1, 0.133s faster in s2 taken right before t14. Then is t14-15 and rivazza.

So that’s 0.165 faster than lec up to t14, and by telemetry doesn’t lose much in gresini. Then it’s suddenly 0.7s off. Seems more of a timing artifact with the fact that he probably went in too hot and caused the little out.

He was faster though.

During the TV broadcast when Nor was 0.7 up to Lec with 2 purple sectors, it was against Lec Medium time. Norris just failed the last corner aborted that lap and right after that Lec crossed the line with soft tyre

[CjC]

I said they would clear the picture up for us

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... JFobJ.html

[LionsHeart]

Wow, what a discussion here. Just wait until Saturday. Everything will be there.

[Emag]

We don't have the proper delta but we do have the sector times :

Lando :
S1 : 23.976,
S2 : 26.166,
S3 : 34.027,
Lap Time = 1:24.169

Leclerc :
S1 : 24.008,
S2 : 26.299,
S3 : 25.662,
Lap Time = 1:15.969

S1 : 23.926,
S2 : 26.315,
S3 : 25.665,
Lap Time = 1:15.906

Charles just barely beat Lando's first sector on his second attempt, but I guess it's safe to assume Lando would have had a bit more on S1 on a second run as well so it's safe to assume S1 is similar for both.

Lando's S2 though is out of reach for Charles. The car is working really well on the high speed stuff. And remember, the S2 line is before the variante alta chicane. That's again a part of the track where Lando is absolutely flying. Oscar lost quite a bit there on his run compared to Charles, but he actually had traffic going into that corner (an Alpine I think). Even if they got out of the way, Oscar was offline going into the corner so he ended up losing around 1.3 tenths compared to Charles there. The remaining corners he was pretty much neck and neck with him.

I think it's fair to assume Lando would have had P1 by at least a tenth had he completed that lap (properly). The best sector times paint a poor picture for McLaren on S3, but Lando's fastest S3 was on the mediums, whereas Oscar's S3 was hampered by the poor entry into the variante alta.

Edit :

Oscar just getting out of variante alta while the alpine is going in (on a slower lap). Can't find onboards unfortunately, but they were too close for there to not have been a hinderance, or at the very least a distraction.



Telemetry also supports a possible mistake there. White line is Lando's medium lap, he pretty much loses nothing to Charles' fastest lap on the softs from the chicane up until the next two corners. Actually, he might have gained a little.

[dialtone]

Telemetry also supports a possible mistake there. White line is Lando's medium lap, he pretty much loses nothing to Charles' fastest lap on the softs from the chicane up until the next two corners. Actually, he might have gained a little.

https://i.imgur.com/N4URY3H.png

The telemetry is incorrect for lando's lap when comparing to lec.

They drove a different distance around the track because one went to the end on a clean lap, the other didn't and pitted instead, when the line gets scaled to fit, it messes with the gaps which gives wrong time deltas.

Lando was faster, but the time gaps are totally off so can't really use any part of that lap time delta, it's all scaled.

[taperoo2k]

It was a joke.

Is he talking about bicycles? Is that a joke related to the new bicycle range that McLaren announced yesterday? Anyone have a longer clip?

Jordan and Newey cycle together in South Africa.

[Emag]

Telemetry also supports a possible mistake there. White line is Lando's medium lap, he pretty much loses nothing to Charles' fastest lap on the softs from the chicane up until the next two corners. Actually, he might have gained a little.

https://i.imgur.com/N4URY3H.png

The telemetry is incorrect for lando's lap when comparing to lec.

They drove a different distance around the track because one went to the end on a clean lap, the other didn't and pitted instead, when the line gets scaled to fit, it messes with the gaps which gives wrong time deltas.

Lando was faster, but the time gaps are totally off so can't really use any part of that lap time delta, it's all scaled.

The telemetry is to show Oscar's mistake in variante alta. The orange line is Oscar's fastest lap on the softs (see the bump at the start), the white line is Lando's fastest lap on the mediums and the red is obviously Charles' fastest lap.

It doesn't have anything to do with Lando's abandoned lap.

[dialtone]

Telemetry also supports a possible mistake there. White line is Lando's medium lap, he pretty much loses nothing to Charles' fastest lap on the softs from the chicane up until the next two corners. Actually, he might have gained a little.

https://i.imgur.com/N4URY3H.png

The telemetry is incorrect for lando's lap when comparing to lec.

They drove a different distance around the track because one went to the end on a clean lap, the other didn't and pitted instead, when the line gets scaled to fit, it messes with the gaps which gives wrong time deltas.

Lando was faster, but the time gaps are totally off so can't really use any part of that lap time delta, it's all scaled.

The telemetry is to show Oscar's mistake in variante alta. The orange line is Oscar, the white line is Lando's fastest lap on the mediums and the red is obviously Charles' fastest lap.

It doesn't have anything to do with his abandoned lap.

fair enough, so long as lando's abandoned lap is not included it shouldn't mess with anything.

[mwillems]

While this is accurate ( i was looking at telemetry as well) keep in mind that the comparison was against LEC's MED lap and LEC himself improved his time by 7-tenths on his soft run right after. so it would have been close between NOR and LEC if NOR had completed his lap

No it is against Leclercs Soft lap... I did a direct comparison between Lando's lap before he aborted and the soft lap Leclerc completed moments later. The telemetry I posted for both drivers was from Lap 9. I just totally forgot that when Tomsky was talking about the gap. But it is understandable because we were 5 tenths up after S2 on the medium time. This is why I say that he did not need to go faster in Sector 3, he needed to ease off a little.

https://i.ibb.co/RH3GQHF/Lap9-Softs.png

It was a mighty lap.

Something is off in the telemetry I think.

Lando was 0.032 faster in S1, 0.133s faster in s2 taken right before t14. Then is t14-15 and rivazza.

So that’s 0.165 faster than lec up to t14, and by telemetry doesn’t lose much in gresini. Then it’s suddenly 0.7s off. Seems more of a timing artifact with the fact that he probably went in too hot and caused the little out.

He was faster though.

Telemetry looks OK from what I can see. Can you screenshot and show an example? ON the lap Lando aborted he was much faster at those points, are you sure you are comparing both drivers lap 9?

Edit: I see from above that I think there is some confusion over laps.
Lando aborted his fastest lap, but it was huge.

[dialtone]

No it is against Leclercs Soft lap... I did a direct comparison between Lando's lap before he aborted and the soft lap Leclerc completed moments later. The telemetry I posted for both drivers was from Lap 9. I just totally forgot that when Tomsky was talking about the gap. But it is understandable because we were 5 tenths up after S2 on the medium time. This is why I say that he did not need to go faster in Sector 3, he needed to ease off a little.

https://i.ibb.co/RH3GQHF/Lap9-Softs.png

It was a mighty lap.

Something is off in the telemetry I think.

Lando was 0.032 faster in S1, 0.133s faster in s2 taken right before t14. Then is t14-15 and rivazza.

So that’s 0.165 faster than lec up to t14, and by telemetry doesn’t lose much in gresini. Then it’s suddenly 0.7s off. Seems more of a timing artifact with the fact that he probably went in too hot and caused the little out.

He was faster though.

Telemetry looks OK from what I can see. Can you screenshot and show an example? ON the lap Lando aborted he was much faster at those points, are you sure you are comparing both drivers lap 9?

Edit: I see from above that I think there is some confusion over laps.
Lando aborted his fastest lap, but it was huge.

It wasn’t huge. I explained how the algorithm for that delta works in other posts. It’s an artifact.

[mwillems]

Something is off in the telemetry I think.

Lando was 0.032 faster in S1, 0.133s faster in s2 taken right before t14. Then is t14-15 and rivazza.

So that’s 0.165 faster than lec up to t14, and by telemetry doesn’t lose much in gresini. Then it’s suddenly 0.7s off. Seems more of a timing artifact with the fact that he probably went in too hot and caused the little out.

He was faster though.

Telemetry looks OK from what I can see. Can you screenshot and show an example? ON the lap Lando aborted he was much faster at those points, are you sure you are comparing both drivers lap 9?

Edit: I see from above that I think there is some confusion over laps.
Lando aborted his fastest lap, but it was huge.

It wasn’t huge. I explained how the algorithm for that delta works in other posts. It’s an artifact.

Can you show these other timepoints? I remember watching Lando against the Medium and he was already over half a second up by that point. I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to see the data.

Edit: I can see the rest of the chat now as before I was replying to jus your post.

[dialtone]

Telemetry looks OK from what I can see. Can you screenshot and show an example? ON the lap Lando aborted he was much faster at those points, are you sure you are comparing both drivers lap 9?

Edit: I see from above that I think there is some confusion over laps.
Lando aborted his fastest lap, but it was huge.

It wasn’t huge. I explained how the algorithm for that delta works in other posts. It’s an artifact.

Can you show these other timepoints? I remember watching Lando against the Medium and he was already over half a second up by that point. I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to see the data.

What data are you looking for? Do you wanna see the code that stretches the telemetry speed line to make them fit?

Lando was faster but the margin was around 0.2s faster.

[mwillems]

It wasn’t huge. I explained how the algorithm for that delta works in other posts. It’s an artifact.

Can you show these other timepoints? I remember watching Lando against the Medium and he was already over half a second up by that point. I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to see the data.

What data are you looking for? Do you wanna see the code that stretches the telemetry speed line to make them fit?

Lando was faster but the margin was around 0.2s faster.

No, the gaps that you mentioned, but I've gone over the rest of the chat and I can see the sector times that emag posted.