2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[harty71]

I've heard claims that Hamilton was losing around 2 tenths from the damage, anybody got a source for that and why didn't the team nor him really mention anything, to me it's a non story.

passed along by a friend from another forum!
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sao-paulo/

The Mercedes with the number 44 carried signs of battle, which cost one to two tenths.

As I thought, no source, just a random guess by the writer, still, even with a tenth or two extra he wouldn't have beat Russell.

[dans79]

I've heard claims that Hamilton was losing around 2 tenths from the damage, anybody got a source for that and why didn't the team nor him really mention anything, to me it's a non story.

passed along by a friend from another forum!
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sao-paulo/

The Mercedes with the number 44 carried signs of battle, which cost one to two tenths.

As I thought, no source, just a random guess by the writer, still, even with a tenth or two extra he wouldn't have beat Russell.

He would after the restart, because he spent several laps within 1 to 1.2 seconds of George. Lewis would lose time in sector 2, and then pull it all back in sector 1 & 3. If he had floor damage, it would have effected him the most (almost solely in sector 2).

If Lewis had gotten within DRS range, George would have been a sitting duck, because Lewis was running a lower down force and drag setup, as the traps speeds showed.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10400083/

[MadMax]

Rosberg won in 2016 at Suzuka. He put it out of Hamiltons reach then and managed to secure the second places he needed from there on in. Had Hamilton won that race and won out the rest of the races he would have been champion.

Hamilton lost the season in Malaysia when he was leading and had Merc's only reliability retirement of the year. He lost 25 points in that moment and ended the season just 5 points behind Rosberg. Without that engine failure, Hamilton was World Champion in 2016 and Rosberg's excellent end of season performance of a win and 4 seconds wouldn't have prevented it.

It was only taken out of Hamiltons hands in Suzuka when Rosberg won. Seconds were all he needed to get after that

If Hamilton had won in Malaysia instead of having his engine go pop, Suzuka wouldn't have mattered on its own. Malaysia happened before Suzuka. If Hamilton had won in Malaysia, he'd have had 405 points at the end of the season if the other races all went as they did. If all other races went as they did, Rosberg would have finished with 382 (he gained 3 points in Malaysia thanks to finishing 3rd instead of 4th). Rosberg would have needed to win two more of the remaining races on top of Suzuka to beat Hamilton. That's how important Malaysia was to the outcome.

[harty71]

passed along by a friend from another forum!
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sao-paulo/

As I thought, no source, just a random guess by the writer, still, even with a tenth or two extra he wouldn't have beat Russell.

He would after the restart, because he spent several laps within 1 to 1.2 seconds of George. Lewis would lose time in sector 2, and then pull it all back in sector 1 & 3. If he had floor damage, it would have effected him the most (almost solely in sector 2).

If Lewis had gotten within DRS range, George would have been a sitting duck, because Lewis was running a lower down force and drag setup, as the traps speeds showed.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10400083/

I'm not so sure, Russell's fastest lap was over 2 tenths faster than Hamilton's so even if he was pulling away at half a tenth that would have still been enough to hang on.

[pursue_one's]

James Vowles says he suspects Lewis received some damage on his car.

[dans79]

James Vowles says he suspects Lewis received some damage on his car.

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

[RonMexico]

Hamilton lost the season in Malaysia when he was leading and had Merc's only reliability retirement of the year. He lost 25 points in that moment and ended the season just 5 points behind Rosberg. Without that engine failure, Hamilton was World Champion in 2016 and Rosberg's excellent end of season performance of a win and 4 seconds wouldn't have prevented it.

It was only taken out of Hamiltons hands in Suzuka when Rosberg won. Seconds were all he needed to get after that

If Hamilton had won in Malaysia instead of having his engine go pop, Suzuka wouldn't have mattered on its own. Malaysia happened before Suzuka. If Hamilton had won in Malaysia, he'd have had 405 points at the end of the season if the other races all went as they did. If all other races went as they did, Rosberg would have finished with 382 (he gained 3 points in Malaysia thanks to finishing 3rd instead of 4th). Rosberg would have needed to win two more of the remaining races on top of Suzuka to beat Hamilton. That's how important Malaysia was to the outcome.

I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. Unreliability happens. How many engine failures has Hamilton had in his entire career? Not many I'd bet.
Rosberg had the electrical fault in Singapore 2014 and the mgu k(I think) in AD 2014 which finished his very real title chances that season.

However, he still could have won the title by winning the last 5 races. Rosberg needed to win one to take it out of Hamiltons hands and he managed that at the first opportunity.

[AR3-GP]

I understand people wanting to dissect everything to death, but I really think we need to let past seasons rest...nevermind 5-6 years ago...Do people still not accept the 2016 result? Come on...

[GSBellew]

Rosberg won in 2016 at Suzuka. He put it out of Hamiltons reach then and managed to secure the second places he needed from there on in. Had Hamilton won that race and won out the rest of the races he would have been champion.

Hamilton lost the season in Malaysia when he was leading and had Merc's only reliability retirement of the year. He lost 25 points in that moment and ended the season just 5 points behind Rosberg. Without that engine failure, Hamilton was World Champion in 2016 and Rosberg's excellent end of season performance of a win and 4 seconds wouldn't have prevented it.

If we are playing silly games, how about this.

If Abu Dhabi 2021 ended under the Safety Car Lewis would have been World Champion 2021.

But if Silverstone 2021 didn't result in a retirement for Max then Lewis & Max would not have been level on points going into the final round.

Supposing Lewis still won in Silverstone and Max was second, that would have been + 18 for Max going into the last race, Second in AD would have been plenty enough.

Monza, yes ok, If Lewis won in Monza and Max came second that would have been a Net +7 points going into the last race leaving Max still 11 points ahead, again second would have been enough.

I'm sure you can come up with a few more scenario's, but it matters very little as who knows what way other races in any given season would have actually panned out in any given season if earlier results were different with people under more or less pressure in later races as a result.

[akashdeep108]

WE JUST WANT MERC TO WIN, RUSSEL/ HAM DOES'NT MATTER.

[mendis]

Rosberg won in 2016 at Suzuka. He put it out of Hamiltons reach then and managed to secure the second places he needed from there on in. Had Hamilton won that race and won out the rest of the races he would have been champion.

Hamilton lost the season in Malaysia when he was leading and had Merc's only reliability retirement of the year. He lost 25 points in that moment and ended the season just 5 points behind Rosberg. Without that engine failure, Hamilton was World Champion in 2016 and Rosberg's excellent end of season performance of a win and 4 seconds wouldn't have prevented it.

If we are playing silly games, how about this.

If Abu Dhabi 2021 ended under the Safety Car Lewis would have been World Champion 2021.

But if Silverstone 2021 didn't result in a retirement for Max then Lewis & Max would not have been level on points going into the final round.

Supposing Lewis still won in Silverstone and Max was second, that would have been + 18 for Max going into the last race, Second in AD would have been plenty enough.

Monza, yes ok, If Lewis won in Monza and Max came second that would have been a Net +7 points going into the last race leaving Max still 11 points ahead, again second would have been enough.

I'm sure you can come up with a few more scenario's, but it matters very little as who knows what way other races in any given season would have actually panned out in any given season if earlier results were different with people under more or less pressure in later races as a result.

All things corrected.

[Stu]

@AkashDeep108…
The evidence above suggests that is not the case….

Well done to the team for not just getting a win, but a one-two; it is just a real shame that the order wasn’t correct for a lot of ‘Mercedes’ fans.


@all users!
This thread is for 2022 Team talk, if you want to rake up hypotheticals from the past do it elsewhere, not here (not even in this forum).
Page after page of nonsense and alternative realities.

[akashdeep108]

Can we simply come to an agreement that both are top level drivers,& building a better car should be the top level priority. We are brewing a rivalry b/w them well before they have a championship winning car.

Let them build a better car than RB& Ferrari for 2023, then we'll see who ends up at the top. Otherwise no point arguing who's better.

[harty71]

James Vowles says he suspects Lewis received some damage on his car.

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

[Jdn1327]

2) I'm surprised that Lewis didn't follow his own advice that he delivered to Max Verstappen at the 2018 Brazilian GP. Max had nothing to lose. Lewis was still searching for his first victory of the season. RB was clearly slower. He should have left space, maybe conceded and just done Max over with DRS on the next laps and got back to focusing on George.

Lewis said last year that he's not playing Max's game any more. If Max wants to try to bully his way through then there will be contact. Max is still driving around Lewis in the same way that he did when Lewis had titles to lose and Max didn't. Lewis even said previous to 2021 that he always gave extra room around Max. However it appears that from now on, Lewis isn't going to jump out of the way anymore so Max needs to figure out a different way to overtake him.

The question is: can Max now adapt?

Honestly, I think because they are so similar in their mentality as alpha drivers; any sort of close wheel racing will end up in contact. They have a unique rivalry in which all of their calculations I wheel to wheel battles with other drivers goes out the window when they see each other on the track. Everytime someone has had to yield to the other they have made contact. This will never change between them.