USGP Michelin Tires

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manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Michelin teams summoned by FIA

The FIA has ordered the seven Michelin teams to appear at a hearing of its World Motor Sport Council on Wednesday June 29 following their controversial withdrawal from the US Grand Prix.

The summons follows a statement issued by Formula One racing’s governing body earlier on Monday, in which it outlines its position on Michelin's decision to pull out of the race. The statement reads:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances".

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."
Max and Bernie are summoning 7 teams thinking that they’re still at power. No problem, let us just wait until boards of directors and shareholders of oil companies and F1 involved corporations worldwide who lost millions hold their meetings to discuss Max’s and Bernie’s deeds and than we’ll see summoning of those two.

Guest
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I believe that if you look at someones body language they are showing you what they dont want to tell you...

If you noticed that every time the camera showed JT up close he would try to avoid the camera. This tells me that he only realised after (the race start) the magnitude of dissaproval that he caused.

Ferrari choses to turn a blind eye to the bigger picture....

That statement by ferrari and the size of the USA market, is so narrow minded. If they think that they did themselves any favours by obtaining a 1-2 finish, they are sadly mistaken!

I literally just get tired (excuse the pun) when thinking about this.

Most teams would have raced, even if they were totally excluded from the points (as Flavio.B said). For me would have been the best thing to do.

- another thing, if you saw how JT ran to his drivers before the podium - It shows that he knew that the crap had hit the fan... Why did he send ross brawn up to the podium? Could he not handle the heat? Even the drivers didnt want to go up.... What im trying to point out is that they knew that they had made the wrong decision.

Ferrari may have closed the championship gap, but that's just about it... Their car is still dog slow.

What I'd do with a baseball bat and that baby faced fool would not make for family viewing!

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Guest wrote:...What I'd do with a baseball bat and that baby faced fool would not make for family viewing!
Save several punches for Montezemolo, Max and Bernie :wink:

Guest
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maybe their body language was they went ahead and did the race to try and please the fans and knew they didn't deserve the win they got and they were disappointed. stop blaiming ferrari for every --- problem that happens to f1. you guys are so idiotic. Michelin --- up. they should of had the tires sent back friday night. the same day the two unknown occurences had. that way they could of had a good understanding by the time the qualifying was going to happen they had a good 24 hours to act and they didn't act soon enough. its michelins problem not ferrari so go --- urself

Guest
Guest
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[maybe their body language was they went ahead and did the race]

maybe you should ask your school fees back....
maybe you should not use words that could be offensive to some people...

Of course it was not ferraris fault, but they (like you) failed to see the bigger picture...
[/quote]

manchild
manchild
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This is not reply but more sort of clearing out what some people mix with "Ferrari hating".

First of all I love Ferrari and it has nothing to do with 4 men that I do hate and who are ruining Ferrari’s reputation and glorious heritage since 1996. Montezemolo, JT, Brown and Schumacher – they are not Ferrari, they are only temporary abusing Ferrari for their personal interests.

On one occasion commenting increasing number of cars painted in sponsors colors Enzo Ferrari said “my cars will never become moving commercials”… and they weren’t until 4 riders of apocalypse took over. For those who perhaps haven’t noticed Ferrari F1 car isn’t painted in Ferrari red but in Marlboro red. That much about respect and love for Ferrari shown by Montezemolo.

The remaining trio - JT, Brown and Schumacher were busy collecting dirt and compromising Ferrari’s tradition and reputation with pile of illegal technical and sporting moves. For every cock-up they had Bernie and Max to cover up and prepare regulations for next season according to demands from Maranello. They believed that same pattern will bring success in 2005 too, and therefore they decided to impose one-race one set of tyres rule.

Unfortunately for them, Bridgestone made crappy tyres which also stopped development of their F2005. The rest is known and this move from US GP is just one of many they’ll be remembered by. Ferrari’s history didn’t begin in 1996 and it certainly won’t end when the mentioned "gentlemen" leave it.

So please allow a possibility that some people like me love Ferrari, its essence and its heritage but despise mentioned foursome and their actions during previous decade.

Frenchmen who hated Vichy regime didn’t hate France – that is my point.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Just a thought…

Having in mind safety FIA decided to slow the cars down by introducing one race-one tyre rule in 2005, right?

Now, at US GP they are warned about safety issue by Michelin (after serious accident) and what was their reaction – absolute indifference but pure concern about the regulations just as if strict respect of regulations is more important than drivers safety! We’re talking about people here not crash test dummies!

So, what is this all about?

Does FIA believe that unsafe situations are only those they consider unsafe and that others should be blindly obedient and risk their life just because Max and Bernie say so? Those two are not prison wardens and team members are not inmates so that Max and Bernie should be given right to treat them with such disrespect and humiliation.

There is so many engineers, specialists, technicians even PhD working in F1 teams not to mention whole factories with research labs… Why should they be considered as less caring for safety or less familiar with the matter than Max and Bernie who are first of all businessman and politicians?

That is why I’d like to see FIA and F1 without a dictatorship, but if that isn’t possible than I vote for GPWC as mean to get both FIA and F1 purified from devastating influence of Max and Bernie. One season of GPWC will get the job done and in the meantime Max and Bernie can sit in Ferraris and hold their own two-car championship.

Guest
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Anonymous wrote:maybe their body language was they went ahead and did the race to try and please the fans and knew they didn't deserve the win they got and they were disappointed. stop blaiming ferrari for every --- problem that happens to f1. you guys are so idiotic. Michelin --- up. they should of had the tires sent back friday night. the same day the two unknown occurences had. that way they could of had a good understanding by the time the qualifying was going to happen they had a good 24 hours to act and they didn't act soon enough. its michelins problem not ferrari so go --- urself
I don't remember anybody blaming Ferrari... me personally, I know they didn't want the chicane, and if Bridgestone was in trouble, the Michelin runners most likely would do the same thing. It's just that Ferrari was apathetic to the bigger picture and took advantage of it.

Personally, Rubens doesn't deserve any of the hate... he was run off the track by stupid team orders (to a point) and you can see how he was trying to control his anger at parc ferme and in the press room. I know everybody booed Schumacher; don't remember what happened to Rubens.

The FIA have a point in enforcing the rules, but what pisses me off is that people spent a lot to go there (I would have probably spent around 3 grand if I went) and they, like Ferrari, have forgotten that they're the reason they're racing. JT's statement of US Ferrari support is stupid and personally I think that any Ferrari fan that savored in this hallow victory is just as stupid and delusion as he is.

West

GuestAgain
GuestAgain
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Is it just me who thinks that the FIA has another sinister motive in refusing to compromise. Think about this, one of their stated aims post concord (2008) is a single tire supplier. Michelin would be unacceptable to Ferrari and Bridgestone would give Ferrari an unfair advantage and therefore be seen (justifiably) as the FIA favouring Ferrari once again. So what better way (excuse) to ensure F1 either
1) gets Bridgestone as the preferred tyre supplier (due to questions regarding Michelin competence) or,
2) the status quo remains (ie 2 tyre suppliers) as the teams cannot not agree.

The FIA (and thus ferrari ) win in either case. In the second instance the FIA can can once again shift the blame on to the teams.

What is the point of the FIA if it is incapable of providing Leadership with fairness....or adequate let alone good governance.

mcdenife

RH1300S
RH1300S
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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Dear guest; if you cannot accept someone else's point of view - don't use foul language to express your frustration. We live in a democracy and intelligent debate is the way we should conduct ourselves in a public forum.

BTW - Look up the word Forum while you are thinking about an answer.

The way I see it is that the initial cause was entirely down to Michelin; Ferrari and the FIA were perfectly justified in taking their stance (especially Ferrari).

I also believe that given the obvious ramifications of not finding a solution the FIA showed a woeful lack of leadership; instead they chose to hide behind the politics of the situation and forget the fans/promoters/sponsors etc. They were scoring political points when they should have been solving problems.

Ferrari showed a lack of ability to see any picture other than their own self interest.

I strongly suspect that Bernie was (oddly) powerless in all of this - usually if something NEEDS to be done or NEEDS to be said - he's your man to see through the smoke and crap and get to the nub of a problem.

We are talking about very powerful, supposedly intelligent, very well paid GROWN MEN - it was not beyond the wit of any of them to find a solution. They lacked the WILL to do it.

They cannot say there are no precedents. If I recall correctly, the Brazillian GP a few years was delayed for safety reasons due to Bridgestone not bringing the correct rain tyre (please, no Ferrari/FIA conspiracy theories - I'm just making a point not pointing fingers :roll: ). Didn't they throw chicanes in at Spa at very short notice one year?

GuestAgain
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RH13003 wrote:
"The way I see it is that the initial cause was entirely down to Michelin; Ferrari and the FIA were perfectly justified in taking their stance (especially Ferrari).

I also believe that given the obvious ramifications of not finding a solution the FIA showed a woeful lack of leadership; instead they chose to hide behind the politics of the situation and forget the fans/promoters/sponsors etc. They were scoring political points when they should have been solving problems.
Darn. Totally agree. My thoughts exactly (sadly, takes me a little longer to be that articulate)

Mcdenife (sorry cant be asked to log in)

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johny
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 09:06
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why there's an option in the poll to say everybody's fault? (except drivers ovbiously)

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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The 1992 world champion Nigel Mansell has sided with Michelin in the blame-game surrounding Sunday's Indianapolis debacle.

The Briton, who tried America's Indy Car series after securing the F1 title, told the Daily Mail that the French tyre supplier was 'very brave' to block teams from racing at the fabled Brickyard.
"And you cannot really blame the teams," Mansell, now 51, added, "who had to react to advice.
"I had some spectacular tyre failures during my career," he said, including a 1986 blow-out on the Adelaide straight that cost him a title.
"You don't mess about with safety. The simple and effective compromise was a chicane," Nigel Mansell concluded.

DeWDiver
DeWDiver
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Just slow Down

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If what Michelin wanted cars to slow down in turn 13, then why didn't those on the Michelins do just that. They could have ran the race and excepted this as their penalty for not bringing/using an appropriate tire.

Simple solution, unless the speed differential would be a safety issue, but they run different classes at LeMans for 24hrs!

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Just slow Down

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DeWDiver wrote:If what Michelin wanted cars to slow down in turn 13, then why didn't those on the Michelins do just that. They could have ran the race and excepted this as their penalty for not bringing/using an appropriate tire.

Simple solution, unless the speed differential would be a safety issue, but they run different classes at LeMans for 24hrs!
That would also be meaningless race as much as it was the one we've seen.

Formula 1 cars shouldn’t run around just for show… 7 Michelin teams including 2 Bridgestone teams agreed to make a competition only Ferrari didn’t want to compete. Their idea of competition is having no competition on track…