Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
I have always found it strange that after (or due to) such a push towards driver safety in the last decade, that people have accepted (or not realised) that the riskiest job at a grand prix is now that of the mechanics followed by the marshals...
Anyway, I think its possible to have both fast exciting pitstops AND a relatively safe pitlane. Only a few simple procedures need to be enforced.
stez90 wrote:Why not NO pit stops at all? I want to see drivers fighting for position on track, not anxious mechanics and incompetent strategists doing -or destroying- the driver's job (take for example Webber and Raikkonen @Silverstone). F1 shouldn't be a team play.
There should be long lasting and less grippy tires that force longer braking zone, and so easier overtakes..
Maybe tires of multiple brands, but with drivers that can choose manufacturer each race (no more races like Indianapolys 2005).
F1 is a team sport and will always be unless you put the drivers in identical cars, no pitstops would mean that most races there would be no point in watching anymore than qualifying and the first few corners ...
We may be past the point of logic in this thread. If they really wanted camera men in the pit lane require the have a spotter. This is pretty common when filming action sports up close.
Fast enough to tell the guy to stop looking through his camera and look out with his real eyes. The wheel was coming his way for about two seconds, and every other person in the pit lane took avoiding action or was ready to. Only the guy looking through a camera ocular, with no sense of perspective or surroundings waited immobile for the wheel to arrive.
Had a thought. 4 guys allowed in the pitlane along with 2 wheel guns. 2 to carry the wheels and 2 to change the wheels.
Use the cars hydraulic system to deploy internal jacks (could be controlled on steering wheel but only once speed is zero). The car cannot be lowered by the button on the wheel. Lowering is controlled by the team on the pitwall but only once the mechanics have stepped back from the car signaling the wheels are secured.
Another thought. Both the raising and lowering could be controlled by the pitwall but I wonder if the driver would be in a better position to know when to deploy the jacks.
I think this would also help cut down on the number of unsafe releases.
Onboard pneumatic lifters, removes four guys from the pitbox straight-away (front&rear jacks + the two spares). Less people, less risk, less confusion, especially the front guys who cut it very fine getting out the way after release.
A very rugged pneumatic connector is inserted into the side of the car by a mechanic, who will also help stabilise the car as it lifts. Through a switch assembly in the fitting this insertion also instructs the car's ECU to pull in the clutch.
One mechanic per wheel. The frenzy of choreographing twelve guys in two seconds is responsible for almost all the chaos we see. The switch that each mechanic pushes to signal they are done now must be, let's say, a minimum of 60cm away from the wheel. Either mounted high on the current gantry, or as control boxes behind or beside the mechanics, team choice. Either way it will require a conscious and distinct effort for it to be activated. Not a switch on a gun that is trying to snap your wrist.
When all four corners have pressed their respective switch, a large green light illuminates on the pneumatic connector, the mechanic removes the air to drop the car. The switch opening now triggers a signal for the ECU to begin a 5 second delay before it reconnects clutch control back to the steering wheel levers. This delay will ensure everyone is safely clear and would allow mechanics time to report a problem (not impotently wave their arms around as an unsafe car drives away from them).
The five seconds countdown is displayed to the chief mechanic (perhaps on rear of the current light rig), not to the driver, when the time has expired he will press his master release button, as he does now, to signal the green light to the driver ... this step is to ensure the pitlane is safe to release into. He can hold the driver longer than the ECU delay if it is required, either a car is coming or a problem has been reported to him.
Apart from the lifters, all of this largely uses systems and hardware currently available in the pits or on the car.
Crucially it still maintains competition between teams, there is no mandated minimum time, so a 6 second (+5) pitstop will still beat a 7 second (+5) pitstop, but we achieve this with a lot less scope for confusion, serious injury and avoidable mistakes.
Am I the only one who likes to watch that amount of people change the wheels?
I think it's brilliantly thought out and technically impressive when a team can change 4 wheels in under 3 seconds.
Motor racing is and always has been dangerous, an article I read explained that the guys in the pit lane know the dangers of being there and fully accept that they are putting themselves at risk. I'm not saying we shouldn't do something to help them, but fixing pit stops and suggestions of even trying to remove them all together is probably not the solution, even people that don't watch F1 marvel at the pit stop speeds and whether people like it or not, strategy is a huge part of the sport.
It's supposed to be motor racing. That should mean cars and drivers and designers and tracks. Not wheel-change circus contests.
Drivers can take all the risks they want, I have zero aversion to that.
That we somehow found ourselves needing to rely on underpaid, sleep-deprived mechanics putting themselves (and others) in harms way for a modicum of near-the-track entertainment should be regarded a problem, not a feature.
flynfrog wrote:you don't tell you push or pull the person out of the way.
Actually the better solution. Screaming to someone that he has to move out of the tyre's trajectory is slow; it takes more then a second before he gets from reception to reaction.
IMO, the same fast pit stops can be done without any minimum time. And like mentioned before by drivers, mechanics, etc: a minimum time isn't going to rule out the risk.
The technology is out there to make sure that if the wheel isn't safely attached, the car can't start. It only takes some time to develop a fail-save system, some good will and rational thinking.
feynman wrote:It's supposed to be motor racing. That should mean cars and drivers and designers and tracks. Not wheel-change circus contests.
Drivers can take all the risks they want, I have zero aversion to that.
That we somehow found ourselves needing to rely on underpaid, sleep-deprived mechanics putting themselves (and others) in harms way for a modicum of near-the-track entertainment should be regarded a problem, not a feature.
I don't think mechanics in F1 are underpaid somehow.
That's the bit you want to concentrate on?
Well technically, as a voluntary, extra responsibility, no-one actually gets paid for working pit-stops.
But that aside, average F1 mechanic salaries are reasonable, but compared to other highly skilled, specialised jobs which see individuals away from their home/family for such extended periods not earth-shattering. Grinding schedule of long haul travel in the cheap seats, poor working conditions, long hours, working to exacting high standards usually against the clock, and then to top it, you now have to kneel as a brutal F1 car aims for you, and as millions watch you fumble for a wheel mounting post as a multi-billion pound sport now apparently relies on you as part of the entertainment, all seems somewhat slightly out of balance to me.
The charities that look after mechanics are reporting injuries from the repeated use of high-torque wheel guns as teams drill their crews non-stop pursuing the 2-second stop.
feynman wrote:That's the bit you want to concentrate on?
Well technically, as a voluntary, extra responsibility, no-one actually gets paid for working pit-stops.
But that aside, average F1 mechanic salaries are reasonable, but compared to other highly skilled, specialised jobs which see individuals away from their home/family for such extended periods not earth-shattering. Grinding schedule of long haul travel in the cheap seats, poor working conditions, long hours, working to exacting high standards usually against the clock, and then to top it, you now have to kneel as a brutal F1 car aims for you, and as millions watch you fumble for a wheel mounting post as a multi-billion pound sport now apparently relies on you as part of the entertainment, all seems somewhat slightly out of balance to me.
The charities that look after mechanics are reporting injuries from the repeated use of high-torque wheel guns as teams drill their crews non-stop pursuing the 2-second stop.
sounds a lot like many sports that isn't high on the short list of high pay
F1 loves to slap band-aids on their problems, and they love to over-react - so I guess the odds are in favor of something like a mandatory pit time. What a bizarre sport this has become. The irony that banning refueling has led to more dangerous pit stops I guess is lost on most everyone. The sport seems to have a terrible time remembering why they made the rules what they are, and instead of taking a step bak in these situations, they just patch the problem and move on. There seems to be a serious lack of vision in the sport - I guess that should come from Bernie or the FIA, but regardless who's to blame, there's certainly no over-arching philosophy driving the sport.
