Flexiwings 2024

[Watto]

Wonder how much its a case of Red Bull also being very sure about spending limited development resources on their own flexiwing.


They obviously have the lowest development allocation and probably don't want to spend that time on their own solution IF the FIA is looking at closing it down. Its probably most costly to them to go down this path than others if its shut down/rules are tightened.

It we get it banned good, it maybe a setback for other teams, it not then we go down this path too with clarity (as much as that is possible with the FIA) on whats ahead.

Imho RB just testing the water how strict the testing is applied. AM got banned, MB allowed. RB says interesting

Btw. You don’t hear Toto anymore about more load, more load….guess he finally understands optimal downforce, in other words decrease the downforce at high speed….

Yeah I think so too,

If they get it banned so be it they don't have to go down this path of research. With everyone closing in on them I guess I get the feeling its being sure the FIA will not close it down before they invest CFD and wind tunnel time into it. they were the masters of flextwings not to long ago so am sure they could figure it out.


And agree re Toto, Hope Mercedes can keep it up too and not not a red herring like a few times in recent years.

[organic]

I don't think this is a 'normal' level of flex. This very much reminds me of the Bahrain '23 clips of AMR

[JordanMugen]

I don't think this is a 'normal' level of flex. This very much reminds me of the Bahrain '23 clips of AMR

Wow! That is a lot flex.

That top edge moves at least 30-40mm doesn't it?

That's a significant change in wing profile due to designed wing flex, unless I'm mistaken.

If it is a illusion in response to the car diving under braking, wouldn't you expect the wishbone to go up (and front wing to go down with the body of the car diving) and the gap to appear optically larger, rather than optically smaller?

[Stu]

It’s only a matter of time before the FIA are using hi-res cameras in the nose camera pods with markers on the flaps/wings to measure the flex in the assembly.

It does look as though some teams are flexing the main wing span torsionally, which is a neat trick - it will cause a significant rotation at the end-plate to increase outwash at the same time as reducing load. The reduced peak load means that more compliant springs can be used on the front axle, along with the useful rearward movement of CoP at higher speeds.
But, as with everything else in F1, the gains are tiny in the ‘real’ world, even if they are ‘huge’ in F1 terms.

[KimiRai]

[TFSA]

Reading the rules, particularly Article 3.2.2 of the technical regulations, i can't imagine that the FIA will allow this to be going on long term. They will crack down on this pretty quick.

This won't result in any disqualifications right now though. What will likely happen is that the FIA will announce that they are bringing tougher tests (as permitted per Article 3.15.1) as of Race X, and the teams have until then to make sure their wings don't flex unreasonably, otherwise they might risk being in breach of the technical regulations.

[organic]

Reading the rules, particularly Article 3.2.2 of the technical regulations, i can't imagine that the FIA will allow this to be going on long term. They will crack down on this pretty quick.

This won't result in any disqualifications right now though. What will likely happen is that the FIA will announce that they are bringing tougher tests (as permitted per Article 3.15.1) as of Race X, and the teams have until then to make sure their wings don't flex unreasonably, otherwise they might risk being in breach of the technical regulations.

That is typically how it's gone. Since beginning of 22 they've been getting continually stricter with flexible bodywork particularly nose/front wing and plank/floor junction. Even if we include RB in 2021, it hasn't resulted in any disqualifications. But has caused issues for teams that were previously running afoul of the flexibility tests.. see RB rear wing structure failing late in the 21 season repeatedly, Ferrari struggles in 22 and AMR in 23

As for the Merc wing it's quite clear that a analysis of the displacement of the top 2 elements is not sufficient with the tricks that exist now.

[SiLo]

I wonder if the actual issue is that the endplates are bending inwards, which in turn helps flex the wind down? It would be incredible hard to test for this from the FIA's perspective.

Think of a piece of string attached between two endplates, at rest, the string is under tension but at speed the endplates move inwards slightly, allowing the string in between to drop.

[Andi76]

This is gonna be a bigger nothingburger topic than the W13 zeropod midwing legality and performance advantage

I love it how F1 "pundits" and massmedia keep reinventing stories on materials exploited on cars for at least 25 years

What’s that even supposed to mean?
Which secret?

Literally the sentence that stops you considering the article as serious...

Indeed! And you are even massively understating, my friend! Remember the 80s and Benetton's front and rear wing brackets, Forti's concave underfloor in 1991 whose outer edges dropped downwards or McLaren's front wing in Portugal in 1996, to name just a few examples from much more than 25 years ago... it is now almost 40 years since "flexible" parts have been used in F1 and every year the discussion returns! Just as we have heard voices for 40 years saying "the FIA must step in and bring in new rules", watch the FIA do just that only to see the engineers find ways to do it anyway. This whole issue is superfluous as it leads nowhere because it is a waste of time. Instead of bringing in new rules and testing methods for the 100th time, for which the engineers then find a solution for the 101st time it should be seen as a form of technology that the teams are working on, which it actually is. Then maybe it would stop the madness that teams who use it call it clever engineering, only to call it cheating when another team does it better.

[peewon]

FIA will not ban anything Mercedes does. They've allowed overbody aero parts ,like the mirror stays and front wing slot gap separators, which completely violate the spirit of the new aero regs. They'll make up some reason why its different or simply hide behind "passed tests".

[Vanja #66]

Indeed! And you are even massively understating, my friend! Remember the 80s and Benetton's front and rear wing brackets, Forti's concave underfloor in 1991 whose outer edges dropped downwards or McLaren's front wing in Portugal in 1996, to name just a few examples from much more than 25 years ago... it is now almost 40 years since "flexible" parts have been used in F1 and every year the discussion returns! Just as we have heard voices for 40 years saying "the FIA must step in and bring in new rules", watch the FIA do just that only to see the engineers find ways to do it anyway. This whole issue is superfluous as it leads nowhere because it is a waste of time. Instead of bringing in new rules and testing methods for the 100th time, for which the engineers then find a solution for the 101st time it should be seen as a form of technology that the teams are working on, which it actually is. Then maybe it would stop the madness that teams who use it call it clever engineering, only to call it cheating when another team does it better.

I was going to write at least 30 years, but wanted to keep it within this century If you ask media representatives, they would probably fail to remember that 10 years ago RB had a DSQ from Qualifying due to flexing front wing, so I can only imagine how hard they would have to investigate to find the first examples of using flexible surfaces to improve aero performance more than 40 years ago

[Luscion]

The FIA sees no need to intervene in Formula 1's latest flexi-wing intrigue

But despite wings notably being seen to flex from onboard camera footage, it is understood that the FIA is comfortable with the designs that teams have employed and it is not planning to probe matters for now.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-h ... /10625897/

[chrisc90]

Lets await Red Bulls version after the summer break then. They've tested what's allowed, and will make a wing to match,

[organic]

If it's allowed then it's allowed! Will be interesting if RB choose to bring an entirely new wing later in the season

[Silent Storm]

Is this flexible wing talk about just front wings? Or both front and rear?