Bahrain GP

[G-Rock]

Yes, Massa had a very Massa like win. Started from the pole and finished first.
Question - Has Massa ever started lower down the grid and won a race? It seems to me that he is only capable of winning from pole position.

He still needs to prove himself in a real "race for position" type of race. I think if he had to battle Kimi, Alonso or any other top drivers that he would crumble.

[G-Rock]

Yes, Massa had a very Massa like win. Started from the pole and finished first.
Question - Has Massa ever started lower down the grid and won a race? It seems to me that he is only capable of winning from pole position.

He still needs to prove himself in a real "race for position" type of race. I think if he had to battle Kimi, Alonso or any other top drivers that he would crumble.

[Ciro Pabón]

For me, Massa was the driver of the race. The questions about Felipinho not winning but from pole are a little oxymoronic, with all due respect: he has won only 3 times in his life. During last year, only 4 drivers of 32 in the grid (Alonso, Massa, Räikkönen and Schumacher) have got pole positions and only 5 drivers have won (the exception being Button).

Most races are win from pole nowadays: it means you have dialed the car correctly and you're faster than everybody. FYI, I give you the famous Brian Lawrence F1 Driver Ranking, now that (it seems to me ) a great deal of the forum is devoted to establish some kind of "pecking order":

Code: Select all

GPs - number of GPs counted for each driver (from the last 100) 
PP  - number of Pole Positions (in the last 100) 
W   - number of wins (in the last 100) 
FL  - number of Fastest Laps (in the last 100) 
Points - these are my points, allocated for many & various things, not 
         just wins, poles, f.laps, etc. 
[Change]  - the change in points as a result of the most recent race 

Numbers in brackets [] in second column indicate table positions 
before adding the most recent GP. 

===============================================================
The last 52 weeks (one year) 
First race (GP #1) - San Marino GP, 23 April 2006 
Last race (GP #18) - Bahrain GP, 15 April 2007 
===============================================================
        Driver               GPs  PP   W  FL   Points  [Change] 
=============================================================== 
 1      Fernando Alonso       18   6   6   4  2299.64  [+20.91]  ** 
 2      Michael Schumacher    15   3   7   7  1991.70  [-22.27] 
 3      Felipe Massa          18   5   3   3  1764.64 [+276.32]  ** 
 4      Kimi Räikkönen        18   4   1   3  1420.42  [+49.74]  ** 
 5      Giancarlo Fisichella  18   -   -   -   802.15  [+21.39]  ** 
 6      Jenson Button         18   -   1   -   623.58   [-4.10]  ** 
 7      Nick Heidfeld         18   -   -   -   523.27  [+46.13]  ** 
 8      Rubens Barrichello    18   -   -   -   475.62  [+19.26]  ** 
 9      Jarno Trulli          18   -   -   -   427.10  [+30.93]  ** 
10      Ralf Schumacher       18   -   -   -   383.56  {+20.30]  ** 

11      David Coulthard       18   -   -   -   371.50   [+9.12]  ** 
12      Vitantonio Liuzzi     18   -   -   -   328.58   [+6.71]  ** 
13      Scott Speed           18   -   -   -   308.31   [-0.68]  ** 
14      Mark Webber           18   -   -   -   295.54  [+11.44]  ** 
15      Nico Rosberg          18   -   -   -   285.24  [+21.64]  ** 
16 [23] Lewis Hamilton         3   -   -   1   283.62 [+113.05]  ** 
17      Takuma Sato           17   -   -   -   267.67   [+9.73]  ** 
18 [16] Pedro de la Rosa       8   -   -   -   255.45   [-2.74] 
19 [18] Christijan Albers     17   -   -   -   252.75  [+21.43]  ** 
20 [21] Robert Kubica          8   -   -   -   228.71  [+38.61]  ** 

27 [28] Heikki Kovalainen      3   -   -   -    71.95  [+24.05]  ** 
29      Anthony Davidson       3   -   -   -    64.45  [+22.37]  ** 
30      Alexander Wurz         3   -   -   -    59.56  [+23.88]  ** 

31      Adrian Sutil           3   -   -   -    43.58  [+23.16]  ** 

32 drivers have appeared in the last 52 weeks.

===============================================================
The last 100 Grand Prix
First race (GP #1)  - European GP, 24 June 2001 
Last race (GP #100) - Bahrain GP, 15 April 2007 
===============================================================
        Driver                GP  PP   W  FL  Points   [Change] 
=============================================================== 
 1      Michael Schumacher    97  30  43  33  6077.84 [-140.16] 
 2      Fernando Alonso       81  15  16   8  5202.88  [-28.49]  ** 
 3      Kimi Räikkönen        98  12  10  20  4369.48   [-7.02]  ** 
 4      Rubens Barrichello    98  10   8  12  2820.37  [-43.51]  ** 
 5      Juan Pablo Montoya    83  13   7  12  2461.72  [-61.57] 
 6  [7] Felipe Massa          73   5   3   3  2444.30 [+263.11]  ** 
 7  [6] Giancarlo Fisichella  98   2   3   1  2243.24   [-7.02]  ** 
 8      Jenson Button         95   3   1   -  2109.35   [-3.50]  ** 
 9      Ralf Schumacher       91   5   4   4  1817.32  [-22.40]  ** 
10      Jarno Trulli          98   2   1   -  1670.92   [+3.23]  ** 

11      David Coulthard       99   -   2   2  1421.18  [-21.50]  ** 
12      Nick Heidfeld         94   1   -   -  1345.45  [+26.27]  ** 
13      Mark Webber           89   -   -   -  1122.79   [-5.54]  ** 
14      Takuma Sato           69   -   -   -   875.54   [-2.56]  ** 
15      Jacques Villeneuve    73   -   -   -   748.62  [-16.50] 
16      Christian Klien       46   -   -   -   647.23   [-9.48] 
17      Tiago Monteiro        36   -   -   -   608.45   [-7.90] 
18      Christijan Albers     39   -   -   -   565.87  [+17.07]  ** 
19      Vitantonio Liuzzi     25   -   -   -   424.33   [+5.39]  ** 
20 [21] Scott Speed           21   -   -   -   359.08   [-1.31]  ** 

21 [20] Pedro de la Rosa      35   -   -   1   354.72   [-8.29] 
22      Olivier Panis         58   -   -   -   341.50  [-10.92] 
23      Nico Rosberg          21   -   -   1   340.11  [+20.96]  ** 
24 [30] Lewis Hamilton         3   -   -   1   283.62 [+113.05]  ** 
25 [24] Narain Karthikeyan    19   -   -   -   271.40   [-3.87] 
26 [25] Cristiano da Matta    27   -   -   -   236.51   [-5.98] 
27 [28] Robert Kubica          8   -   -   -   228.71  [+38.61]  ** 
28 [26] Antonio Pizzonia      20   -   -   -   189.65   [-3.83] 
29 [27] Robert Doornbos       11   -   -   -   188.75   [-2.30] 
30 [29] Zsolt Baumgartner     20   -   -   -   184.02   [-3.63] 

31      Heinz-H Frentzen      34   -   -   -   152.25   [-7.01] 
32      Gianmaria Bruni       18   -   -   -   146.30   [-2.82] 
33      Patrick Friesacher    11   -   -   -   115.82   [-1.74] 
34      Jos Verstappen        25   -   -   -   105.14   [-4.71] 
35      Giorgio Pantano       14   -   -   -   102.97   [-2.09] 
36 [41] Alexander Wurz         4   -   -   -    98.40  [+23.28]  ** 
37 [36] Sakon Yamamoto         7   -   -   -    88.50   [-0.93] 
38 [37] Justin Wilson         16   -   -   -    86.17   [-2.45] 
39 [38] Ralph Firman          14   -   -   -    80.45   [-2.36] 
40 [39] Franck Montagny        7   -   -   -    78.24   [-0.90] 

41 [40] Eddie Irvine          25   -   -   -    72.51   [-5.04] 
42 [46] Heikki Kovalainen      3   -   -   -    71.95  [+24.05]  ** 
43 [45] Anthony Davidson       6   -   -   -    71.56  [+22.11]  ** 
44 [42] Mika Salo             17   -   -   -    65.61   [-3.71] 
45 [43] Timo Glock             4   -   -   -    58.02   [-1.04] 
46 [44] Ricardo Zonta          6   -   -   -    53.11   [-1.30] 
47      Yuji Ide               4   -   -   -    46.33   [-0.57] 
48      Nicholas Kiesa         5   -   -   -    45.28   [-1.13] 
49 [54] Adrian Sutil           3   -   -   -    43.58  [+23.16]  ** 
50 [49] Alan McNish           16   -   -   -    43.15   [-2.45] 

51 [50] Marc Gené              3   -   -   -    42.70   [-0.91] 
52 [51] Alex Yoong            14   -   -   -    35.14   [-2.34] 
53 [52] Mika Häkkinen          8   -   2   2    30.10   [-6.44] 
54 [53] Enrique Bernoldi      19   -   -   -    27.54   [-2.78] 
55      Jean Alesi             9   -   -   -    11.08   [-2.72] 
56      Tomas Enge             3   -   -   -     4.77   [-0.60] 
57      Tarso Marques          5   -   -   -     2.84   [-0.94] 
58      Luciano Burti          5   -   -   -     1.43   [-0.92]

I hope this helps. If somebody asks for it, I can give you the F1 Driver ranking for last two or three years.

[astsmtl]

Maybe Fernando's poor performance in Bahrain is a McLaren strategy? Think about the next Grand Prix in Spain. Fernando attracted to McLaren some spanish sponsors, and they want to see him winning in Barcelona without compromise. Maybe they decided to save a bigger part of engine resource for Barcelona to achieve this goal?

[leomax]

^^
Funny,i heard the same thing from star commentator.
But i dont buy that tho..

[mx_tifoso]

I dont buy that either, It's really simple though, because you cant expect someone to win every race, Alonso and every other driver is going to have a bad race here and there, it happens.

And it just happened that Heidfield was faster than him and overtook him, that was probably one of the most exciting events for me, watching Alonso being overtaken by a BMW !! Besides watching Massa win !

Scuderia Ferrari 2007 WCC

[DaveKillens]

Suppsedly Alonso was struggling with grip all weekend. It shows in his qualifying effort. I do, however, believe that once Heidfeld had passed him the engineers and strategists turned the engine down, to save it for Spain.
For Alonso, his home nation is the most important for him. I'm sure that from day one he has insisted to everyone in McLaren that he want's to win there, and expects a car worthy of the effort.
It sure makes good drama (and bosts ticket sales) where the home hero arrives in a three way tie for the lead and wins at Barcelona.

[mx_tifoso]

If thats the case and he/McLaren turned down the power in order to insure a continuing health of his engine for the Spanish GP, I guess he will definately have a decent battle for Hamilton and Ferrari. But IIRC, I read that Raikkonen turned down his revs as well because he knew that there was no better result possible and that he needed to keep his engine as well as possible.

I'm sure that not only Ferrari are planning aero and other updates for Spain, but if McLaren cant surpass Ferrari in the the development stages I find it rather hard for them to win, unless Massa and Raikkonen have some sort of problems, which has been the norm for this season, which just might happen! Unfortunatly

I am hoping for the best result possible for Ferrari, as always, a 1-2 would amazing, and even more so, that result, with no Macca on the podium, but I find that rather difficult to happen, for so many reasons.

[trinlico]

This is exactly why I don't like the two-race engine rule.

I think its widely accepted that the money saved on this (and development freeze) just gets spent somewhere else, and so we are just left with races where once the pecking order is settled they turn down the wick and cruise home.

With all the talk of bringing back racing to racing, surely this is a step in the wrong direction?

[mx_tifoso]

And fresh from autosport, well actually its from yesterday, but Alonso is claiming that a lighting pod fell on his car, and thus damaging or hindering his cars performance through out the race. I sure wasnt expecting lame excuses from this guy, maybe all that time spend as fisicos teammate rubbed off on him. Or maybe he has spent some time with Button as well.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58178

[leomax]

Maybe a mistake was made while re-assembling the car after that mishap. The fact is the car had a strange behavior from then on.

The keyword is 'may'.

[pRo]

And fresh from autosport, well actually its from yesterday, but Alonso is claiming that a lighting pod fell on his car

Sorry, but it's old news and not just a claim. Other media already reported it on saturday, before the qualifying.

[mx_tifoso]

The point I was trying to get across was not that it was "fresh news", it was Alonso's excuse.

Take it easy guys.

[pRo]

Just curious, how do you know if it actually affected his pace? You must know more than we do, if you can call it a "lame excuse". Please enlighten us.

[mx_tifoso]

I didnt say that the pod affected his race, Alonso said that, I simply shared it with all the now pronounced Alonso fans. And I do find that excuse lame, whether its true or not. "Maybe" it was re-assembled wrong? What the heck is that? He cant just have a bad weekend and accept it? He really needs to grow up a little and accept things arent perfect all the time. It goes for every single driver out there, not just Alonso.
So what ? If that incident was what caused his car to have bad handling or whatever it was that caused him to be slower than his teammate, the Ferrari's, and Heidfield, I dont care. If it allows more points for either of the Ferrari drivers and obviously more points for Ferrari, its a great thing for me.
Now seriously take it easy and dont get so upset about such a dumb thing. Unless we want to go the route where this thread will end up closed, because we both know it can go there.