3? place penalty ?

[WhiteBlue]

Ciro, we can all agree that stewarding is difficult, but does that mean that stewards shouldn't be criticized? Given that stewarding is difficult, shouldn’t we ask for competent people to do the job? And not only stewarding of course, the whole pit entry - pit exit story clearly shows that there is a lot of incompetence in key positions when there is such an obvious solution to the problem, and no-one seems capable of thinking of it, let alone implement it.
Both entry and exit could easily be routed inside the kerbs of the last and first corner respectively, and I am amazed and appalled that this hasn’t been done.
Is there any other explanation than idiocy, incompetence and arrogance?

This problem was long in the making. Valencia had a test prior to running F1 and that is the true and proven way to do such things. they should have run any of the feeder series a week or two before the race there, particularly as they did not employ Tilke who has much recent experience.

Given that they discovered the problem on Friday I cannot understand that the FIA did not clarify how they were going to deal with the problem. I can understand that they may have been unable to change the pit entry and exit layout. but surely they were able to comment on the problem and abvise the drivers what would be the way they were going to handle things. a sensible way of doing this would be temporarily lifting the blocking rule in the pit entry until that problem was fixed.

...Speaking about the incident, Heidfeld told autosport.com: "The GPS system does not work here. Normally we are pretty good from the team side to inform me of cars arriving, but here it is not just working. It doesn't show you cars, it then shows the wrong cars or the wrong positions. So I was not informed because the GPS does not work.

"The last part of the circuit was so tight and I watched the mirrors but you don't see cars coming. When I saw him (Rubens) I tried to do the best I could to get out of the way. After the white line I tried to be as quick into the pitlane without moving completely right and going into his way. It was the best I could do. But apparently not enough."

Heidfeld has said his annoyance at the matter has been increased because it should have been noted before the Grand Prix event started that the design of the pitlane entry would cause trouble.

"Even before the race weekend started it was obvious that there would be issues with the pitlane entry and pitlane exit, so I don't know why it wasn't thought through properly," said the German.

The current crop of FIA officials seems to be extraordinaryly concerned with making the FIA money from fines. It appears that they have lost sight of the dignity of the office of being a judge. justicia carries a sword to signify that the application of justice can hurt. if you use that sword unwise it looses it'sedge as the judge looses the respect of the judged.

the American constituion says the government derives it's powers from the consent of those it governs. I'm of the impression that the FIA is rapidly loosing the basis of being the governing body. I have been an advocate of the FIA for all my time observing the sport. I hate mindless FIA bashing. but I have predicted that the Spa decision will do catastrophic damage to the reputation of the FIA and more so than the Mosley affair. we are experiencing this now.

[andartop]

What I find hard to believe is that everyone seems to have been caught by surprise. It would have been wise to run a few other races before the F1 race just to check things out, I agree. Still, I think such a basic fault on the design of the track would have been quite obvious even on a Playstation game, let alone the sophisticated hi-end simulators the teams use prior to visiting a new track. Not to mention just by having a look on the track blueprints long before the track was actually built. As far as the drivers are concerned, I have not read any announcements by the GPDA on the issue. So, up to now, what we have is a few drivers moaning on the media about it, a few other team members moaning on the media about it, a lot of media moaning about it, and a lot of fans moaning on this forum about it. Seems to me like a lot of moaning about an issue which might or might not be an issue after all. As I suggested earlier, since I am not in Singapore to see for my self, I would rather watch the race first and see what happens. If half the grid gets a penalty during the race then it will be quite obvious there is indeed a problem. In that case, we should ask ourselves how come the FIA, the teams or the drivers did not do anything about it before the race (apart from moaning on the media). If not, it will be quite obvious it was indeed Heidfeld's mistake.

[myurr]

If half the grid gets a penalty during the race then it will be quite obvious there is indeed a problem.

There is no in-race penalty for slowing someone down in this manner.

[WhiteBlue]

If half the grid gets a penalty during the race then it will be quite obvious there is indeed a problem.

There is no in-race penalty for slowing someone down in this manner.

=D> =D> =D> someone spotted the faulty logic. I was tired of arguing.

[andartop]

One could still argue that:
a)only one incident during a GP weekend probably indicates it was indeed a driver's error.
b)had it been a major track design fault it should have been noticed much earlier by the FIA, or teams or drivers.
c)had it not been noticed by anyone else, the GPDA should have published the drivers' official opinion on the issue.
d)just moaning in the media about it does not contribute towards a solution to any problem.

[myurr]

One could still argue that:
a)only one incident during a GP weekend probably indicates it was indeed a driver's error.
b)had it been a major track design fault it should have been noticed much earlier by the FIA, or teams or drivers.
c)had it not been noticed by anyone else, the GPDA should have published the drivers' official opinion on the issue.
d)just moaning in the media about it does not contribute towards a solution to any problem.

I agree with b, c, and d - but according to the ITV commentators Heidfeld was inside the designated pit lane when he was adjudged to have blocked Rubens. So I say again, WTF!?

[RH1300S]

Has anyone got a decent pic of the pitlane?

When I saw it - briefly on TV - I was struck that Heidfeld looked like he could have tucked in further to the left and also that Rubens could have taken the corner at racing speed.

Surely the apex to the corner is a little beyond the pitlane entrance, so the drivers should be on different parts of the race track.

Admittedly a slightly poor design feature, but not madly so.

Perhaps all they needed to do was have pit-lane entry lines (like pit exit lines) that the drivers have to keep within.

[persovik]

One could still argue that:
a)only one incident during a GP weekend probably indicates it was indeed a driver's error.
b)had it been a major track design fault it should have been noticed much earlier by the FIA, or teams or drivers.
c)had it not been noticed by anyone else, the GPDA should have published the drivers' official opinion on the issue.
d)just moaning in the media about it does not contribute towards a solution to any problem.

I believe the GPDA did tell the organizers that they were unhappy with entrance and exit and demanded that something was done, and did indeed not just moan in the media. The drivers indicated that they expected there would be incidents, so they were probably all extra carefull, hence only the single incident.
Is it your argument that because nobody with the power to do anything noticed that there was a design problem, then there probably wasn't? When the racing line intersect the white pit-entry line, then it should be obvious that there is a potential big problem. Pit entry in Brazil is somewhat similar, but the drivers doesn't really loose anything by staying outside the white line when on a racing lap, so it isn't much of an issue.

[mcdenife]

parsovik wrote:
Given that stewarding is difficult, shouldn’t we ask for competent people to do the job?

Never a truer word said my friend.It is what obtains everywhere else with much less at stake from safety, financial, etc perspective, so why not F1?

[andartop]

I believe the GPDA did tell the organizers that they were unhappy with entrance and exit and demanded that something was done, and did indeed not just moan in the media. The drivers indicated that they expected there would be incidents, so they were probably all extra carefull, hence only the single incident.
Is it your argument that because nobody with the power to do anything noticed that there was a design problem, then there probably wasn't? When the racing line intersect the white pit-entry line, then it should be obvious that there is a potential big problem. Pit entry in Brazil is somewhat similar, but the drivers doesn't really loose anything by staying outside the white line when on a racing lap, so it isn't much of an issue.

Do you have a link to the GPDA official statement? That would really be handy! I was looking for it but did not find anything other than comments of certain drivers to the media, nothing official.
I believe a Formula 1 driver has to expect the unexpected and be extra careful at all times.
My argument is that such a major design fault would have been obvious to the FIA,Teams, Drivers and Media long before the Friday practice session, even long before the track was actually built. So, unless they did any last minute changes to the track layout, I find it hard to understand why some people were so surprised. With these in mind I can only assume that either a)some people were exaggerating and there wasn't actually such a huge problem, or b)for all its billions pounds of worth the F1 is run by amateurs, the participating teams are also amateurs and the people who designed and built the track are amateurs as well!