Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

[Cold Fussion]

Red Bull will decide after its home Austrian Grand Prix this weekend if it will continue with Renault engines into the future.

That is the claim of team owner and supremo Dietrich Mateschitz.

Mateschitz confirmed on Friday: “There will be this final report. And then we will decide if there is still potential development in the existing engine, or whether we need to consider a new development in order to reach Mercedes’ standard.”

Previously, however, Red Bull officials have played down the possibility of a Renault split, as Formula 1′s only other engine suppliers are arch rivals Mercedes and Ferrari.

But there have been reports linking Red Bull with Volkswagen, or a potential move to build a bespoke ‘Red Bull’ turbo engine — perhaps in the outfit’s forthcoming Newey-led ‘Advanced Technology Centre’.

When told there are no real alternatives to Renault, Mateschitz insisted: “There are always alternatives, of course. But I don’t see Red Bull using a customer Mercedes engine. Because Mercedes wants to be world champion not just this year but also in the next few years.

-GP247

Guess he is planning for 2016 or later as next year is too soon. Or is DM powerful enough to get rid of some of the v6 regulations which could see less restrictions on the engine configuration and see Porsche le mans engines legal in f1.

The regulations aren't going any where. Either they pay someone like VAG to design them an F1 engine, or they go it alone. Many suspect the PURE effort was sponsored either by VW or Red Bull (perhaps both?), so it will be slightly weird to see them start from scratch again.

[FW17]

Red Bull planning Infiniti F1 engine?

Sebastian Vettel, Austrian GP 2014Sebastian Vettel, Austrian GP 2014 © Active Pictures
Plans are afoot for an 'Infiniti' engine in formula one.

It is already known that reigning world champions Red Bull will compile a 'final report' about current supplier Renault's progress since its disastrous pre-season after this weekend's Austrian grand prix.

"Then we will decide if there is still potential development in the existing engine, or whether we need to consider a new development in order to reach Mercedes' standard," team owner Dietrich Mateschitz said this week.

Renault, whose other F1 customers are Toro Rosso, Lotus and Caterham, have reason to be worried.

"We know that Red Bull makes high demands of us," said the French marque's engine boss Rob White, "but I am sure that we can meet them."

Switching to the V6s produced by rivals Mercedes or Ferrari can be ruled out, Honda is not ready to consider servicing customers, and Red Bull's links to Volkswagen are considered wide of the mark.

Another rumour is that the team could build a bespoke 'Red Bull' turbo engine.

"Nothing is impossible," Dr Helmut Marko coyly told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.

Correspondent Michael Schmidt even has some details of the potential plan.

He said Red Bull already plays a major role in the production of the power unit batteries. And the 'Renault' turbocharger is actually derived from APC Pankl, an Austrian technology collaboration.

The internal combustion engine and motors would be built at AVL, an Austrian company located not far from the scene of this weekend's Austrian grand prix at the Red Bull Ring.

AVL, the world's largest independent powertrain development company, hit the headlines recently when reports of a secret 'rolling road' pre-season test with a Red Bull-owned Toro Rosso took place at its impressive Graz facility.

Schmidt continued: "Infiniti would contribute a portion of the budget and may contribute knowledge about electric motors from the parent company Nissan.

"It is planned that the engine will also be called Infiniti."

Wonder what Nissan is planning for their LMP 1 entry next year, V6 1.6 as per F1 regs?

Maybe Newey could sketch the Nissan LMP car in exchange for the engine.

Or maybe RedBull wants full control of the F1 programme develop the engine themselves with a subcontractor

[Cold Fussion]

It's unlikely you would use an F1 engine at Le Mans, to be competitive requires a bespoke engine for each application. Not to mention F1 engines are not designed for the length of a 24 hour race.

[NTS]

Any news on "the report"? I wouldn't expect it to be very positive after a DNF for Vettel and a clear lack of power for Ricciardo.

[mikeerfol]

Any news on "the report"? I wouldn't expect it to be very positive after a DNF for Vettel and a clear lack of power for Ricciardo.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114598

Red Bull boss Horner says Renault F1 form is unacceptable.

[FoxHound]

If Red Bull do go down the route of building their own engine, it could prove tortuous.
My view here is that due to the Renault/Nissan marriage Red Bull could make a very crafty move.

Nissan could join F1, and under the entry permutations could bring a heavily revised Renault engine with bespoke modifications to suit Red Bull.

Seems far plausible to me, as it will suit all 3 parties. Renault benefit from there partner in business (nissan) being higher profile, Nissan benefit from having 1st class racing exposure, and Red Bull get their engine.

[langwadt]

how would the engine freeze work if Renault took their engine and staff to say Redbull technology, fixed it and then and slapped a Nissan or Infinity badge on it?

[dobbster71]

Red Bull planning Infiniti F1 engine?

Sebastian Vettel, Austrian GP 2014Sebastian Vettel, Austrian GP 2014 © Active Pictures
Plans are afoot for an 'Infiniti' engine in formula one.

It is already known that reigning world champions Red Bull will compile a 'final report' about current supplier Renault's progress since its disastrous pre-season after this weekend's Austrian grand prix.

"Then we will decide if there is still potential development in the existing engine, or whether we need to consider a new development in order to reach Mercedes' standard," team owner Dietrich Mateschitz said this week.

Renault, whose other F1 customers are Toro Rosso, Lotus and Caterham, have reason to be worried.

"We know that Red Bull makes high demands of us," said the French marque's engine boss Rob White, "but I am sure that we can meet them."

Switching to the V6s produced by rivals Mercedes or Ferrari can be ruled out, Honda is not ready to consider servicing customers, and Red Bull's links to Volkswagen are considered wide of the mark.

Another rumour is that the team could build a bespoke 'Red Bull' turbo engine.

"Nothing is impossible," Dr Helmut Marko coyly told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport.

Correspondent Michael Schmidt even has some details of the potential plan.

He said Red Bull already plays a major role in the production of the power unit batteries. And the 'Renault' turbocharger is actually derived from APC Pankl, an Austrian technology collaboration.

The internal combustion engine and motors would be built at AVL, an Austrian company located not far from the scene of this weekend's Austrian grand prix at the Red Bull Ring.

AVL, the world's largest independent powertrain development company, hit the headlines recently when reports of a secret 'rolling road' pre-season test with a Red Bull-owned Toro Rosso took place at its impressive Graz facility.

Schmidt continued: "Infiniti would contribute a portion of the budget and may contribute knowledge about electric motors from the parent company Nissan.

"It is planned that the engine will also be called Infiniti."

Wonder what Nissan is planning for their LMP 1 entry next year, V6 1.6 as per F1 regs?

Maybe Newey could sketch the Nissan LMP car in exchange for the engine.

Or maybe RedBull wants full control of the F1 programme develop the engine themselves with a subcontractor

As there is a long standing alliance between Renault & Nissan, I can't see Nissan being involved with a separately developed engine. As Infiniti is a Nissan brand I would rule out this link also.
I would expect the Nissan LMP engine to be heavily based upon the Renault V6.

[basti313]

There is no chance for a new engine to be competitive and the guys from Redbull know that. The problem is just the combustion engine: The Merc V8 engine already had some tweaks making it a few percent stronger than the Ferrari and the Renault engine. They could just conserve this advantage and make it maybe 5 percent as they could nearly match Redbull in Canada without MGU-K support.
You can not overcome this with an engine from the scratch or an underpowered Cosworth...you need to go for more power like the BMW...but they do not want to.

[beelsebob]

There is no chance for a new engine to be competitive and the guys from Redbull know that. The problem is just the combustion engine: The Merc V8 engine already had some tweaks making it a few percent stronger than the Ferrari and the Renault engine. They could just conserve this advantage and make it maybe 5 percent as they could nearly match Redbull in Canada without MGU-K support.
You can not overcome this with an engine from the scratch or an underpowered Cosworth...you need to go for more power like the BMW...but they do not want to.

What makes you think that you can't do something as good with a new from-scratch engine? After all... Mercedes just did exactly that, so it clearly is possible.

[dobbster71]

how would the engine freeze work if Renault took their engine and staff to say Redbull technology, fixed it and then and slapped a Nissan or Infinity badge on it?

I'm sure that this wouldn't be allowed. After all, Fiat could do the same, completely redesign the Ferrari engine & introduce Maserati or Alfa Romeo as an engine supplier. Ferrari would then use a "re-badged" Maserati / Alfa Romeo engine!

[basti313]

There is no chance for a new engine to be competitive and the guys from Redbull know that. The problem is just the combustion engine: The Merc V8 engine already had some tweaks making it a few percent stronger than the Ferrari and the Renault engine. They could just conserve this advantage and make it maybe 5 percent as they could nearly match Redbull in Canada without MGU-K support.
You can not overcome this with an engine from the scratch or an underpowered Cosworth...you need to go for more power like the BMW...but they do not want to.

What makes you think that you can't do something as good with a new from-scratch engine? After all... Mercedes just did exactly that, so it clearly is possible.

I do not believe in a total "new from-scratch engine" at all. Tweaks that defined the power ranking in the V8 time are still usefull in the V6 and this is why they again have the same power ranking...maybe even more defined as tweaks in the valvetrain, the pistons or the air routing are even more useful in a weaker engine.
Even if Merc is able to build a good "new from-scratch engine", Renault and Ferrari with all their experience were not able to do so. Now a new constructor without the experience of these three should build a competitive engine? Come on...
I really only see BMW being able to build an engine like the Merc engine. I absolutely do not believe in a new project without any F1 experience like AVL at all.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

There is no chance for a new engine to be competitive and the guys from Redbull know that. The problem is just the combustion engine: The Merc V8 engine already had some tweaks making it a few percent stronger than the Ferrari and the Renault engine. They could just conserve this advantage and make it maybe 5 percent as they could nearly match Redbull in Canada without MGU-K support.
You can not overcome this with an engine from the scratch or an underpowered Cosworth...you need to go for more power like the BMW...but they do not want to.

What makes you think that you can't do something as good with a new from-scratch engine? After all... Mercedes just did exactly that, so it clearly is possible.

It's not that easy. The Mercedes engines in the West McLaren Raikkonen era were crap, it took them years to improve the engine. They have massive infrastructure and experience with road cars to help the development of their engine. They used it even to build this 2014 V6 engine. It's not that simple to build an engine as competive as the Mercedes.

[Sasha]

Now you know why RB made peace with Ron Dennis and Honda.

Need to keep that option open...just in case.

[Sasha]

Renaults problem isn't the ICE but the ERS and Control Systems.

That is something Mercedes is great at and Honda is very good but they also hired the PURE engine people(team leader was the one who came up with the 2014 engine rules) and Magneti Marelli for their ERS.