Aston Martin wants hyper-car to be faster than F1 cars

[Just_a_fan]

I think a big fan would had been illegal for a road car. It's certainly a ground effect car though.

I believe the McLaren F1 has a fan that serves to suck off the boundary layer before the rear diffuser.

The fan on the F1 was actually a cooling fan used to cool the electronics. It was placed so as to be beneficial to the diffuser but it wasn't the primary reason for the fan being on the car.

[Just_a_fan]

What are the chances Newey has chose wrong? Remember they have unlimited simulation and testing on this car.

Would it be helpful to mention the MP4-18 at this point?

Your devotion to Newey is bordering on the fanatical, SR71. Are you the Annie Wilkes of F1?

[DiogoBrand]

I would assume that in track mode those skirts will be pretty much touching the ground, that way the CoG will be very low and it will generate "many downforces", pretty much a mix between the early 80's skirts and early 90's active suspension.
I really wouldn't think they'd run the car like this on track mode.

[SR71]

What are the chances Newey has chose wrong? Remember they have unlimited simulation and testing on this car.

Would it be helpful to mention the MP4-18 at this point?

Your devotion to Newey is bordering on the fanatical, SR71. Are you the Annie Wilkes of F1?
http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/def ... rimary.jpg

You could mention it.... does it have a point? No.

But lets get some stakes in the ground, when it comes to the underbody and COG of the AM/RB-001, Newey has no idea and you know what he should do to correct it, confirm or deny.

[SR71]

http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/a ... k=5ptOcBtb

I would assume that in track mode those skirts will be pretty much touching the ground, that way the CoG will be very low and it will generate "many downforces", pretty much a mix between the early 80's skirts and early 90's active suspension.
I really wouldn't think they'd run the car like this on track mode.

+1. Obviously...

[Just_a_fan]

What are the chances Newey has chose wrong? Remember they have unlimited simulation and testing on this car.

Would it be helpful to mention the MP4-18 at this point?

Your devotion to Newey is bordering on the fanatical, SR71. Are you the Annie Wilkes of F1?
http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/def ... rimary.jpg

You could mention it.... does it have a point? No.

But lets get some stakes in the ground, when it comes to the underbody and COG of the AM/RB-001, Newey has no idea and you know what he should do to correct it, confirm or deny.

The point is that Newey designed the Mp4-18 and it was a total lemon. It's a reminder that the man is very good but he isn't infallible.

I'm making no comment about the CoG of the car, merely your fanatical devotion to Newey. It's sycophantic to the point of inducing vomit from those us having to read it every other post. Other forum members have already made this point to you. We're not being nasty, we're trying to keep this excellent thread on topic.

How about you try to analyse the car technically? Try to figure out what we're not seeing and how it might be designed? Just saying "Newey knows what he's doing and you lot don't" isn't moving our understanding forward.

[strad]

It is widely known that he "borrowed the fan idea from the Chapperal fan car and the bit about cooling was simply a ruse.
It was there from day one for downforce.
I don't have the book any longer but I did have one the quoted Murray extensively on the subject.

[SR71]

Would it be helpful to mention the MP4-18 at this point?

Your devotion to Newey is bordering on the fanatical, SR71. Are you the Annie Wilkes of F1?
http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/def ... rimary.jpg

You could mention it.... does it have a point? No.

But lets get some stakes in the ground, when it comes to the underbody and COG of the AM/RB-001, Newey has no idea and you know what he should do to correct it, confirm or deny.

The point is that Newey designed the Mp4-18 and it was a total lemon. It's a reminder that the man is very good but he isn't infallible.

I'm making no comment about the CoG of the car, merely your fanatical devotion to Newey. It's sycophantic to the point of inducing vomit from those us having to read it every other post. Other forum members have already made this point to you. We're not being nasty, we're trying to keep this excellent thread on topic.

How about you try to analyse the car technically? Try to figure out what we're not seeing and how it might be designed? Just saying "Newey knows what he's doing and you lot don't" isn't moving our understanding forward.

Red Bull have whats considered the best simulation tools available, surely you know this.

Given that you're a smart guy and know a simple fact like that you could easily deduce that when I say "what are the chances Newey got it wrong" you know that I mean Newey (he is the aero designer) would have ran many permutations through simulation to arrive at the final. This context is quite easy to arrive at, you're a smart guy so of course I dont have to point that out.

Given that you're a bright guy you also know that people with as much talent as Newey have rarely make the same mistake twice and therefore bringing up prototype race car from over 10 years ago prior to the simulation software available today is pretty irrelevant.

Newey is the designer, you cannot discuss this car without discussing him. It's his philosophy, his concept, its not fanatical devotion to discuss him in context of the car he designed. You're a smart guy though as we already deduced, so you know that.

[Just_a_fan]

The more I look at this image, the more I see a scaled up version of an F1 diffuser. It looks, to me, to have a floor section (the lowest part of the floor visible here), then a diffuser ramp, then a long roughly horizontal roof that gently expands upwards towards the rear lip. The throat of this arrangement starts at the yellow strake in the centre of the car here:

I think it extends reawards to somewhere level with the external air intake, steps up to form the initial diffuser, then is horizontal (mostly) until it gets to the drive shaft and then curves upwards again.

The yellow strake marks a separator between the underbody flow and the duct to the mid mounted radiators.
Another view of the strake looking forward:

You can see that the strake is shaped. You can also see how there is a huge space between the front wing and the strake. I'm guessing that the roof of this space is shaped to encourage some downforce.

The front wing appears to be designed to clean up the air flow around the front tyre. This is assisted by the very obvious rearwards extension of the front wheel fender. This is important as we see on an F1 car. Turbulent air is directed outboard and away from the underbody. The "tunnels" are helped by the large outwards facing footplate in the bodywork in front of the rear wheels. This is an idea that Tony Southgate brought to Group C back in the day. Notice how the footplate is sculpted just like a footplate on an F1 front wing.

The rear three quarter view shows how the front and rear fenders are designed to interact to keep the flow going where they want it to go. The sculpted rear footplate is obvious here too. As is the huge void under the front body.

The more I look at it, the more it seems that it is designed to work as a big pair of diffusers at the rear with a diffuser-wing at the front. The little flip-up wing on top of the rear bodywork is, I'm betting, an active device designed to constantly trim the car to maintain the centre of pressure just to rear of the centre of mass. In track mode, with the body lowered, it will be an old-fashioned ground effect car. In road mode, I think it will just be f-ing fast in a straight line with more grip than can be used on the highway.

[Just_a_fan]

Newey is the designer, you cannot discuss this car without discussing him. It's his philosophy, his concept, its not fanatical devotion to discuss him in context of the car he designed. You're a smart guy though as we already deduced, so you know that.

One can discuss the car without mentioning Newey once. One can certainly discuss the car without constantly saying "Newey's a genius" or similar.

Try it. Try to discuss the car without mentioning the designer. Go on, try it.

[SR71]

Newey is the designer, you cannot discuss this car without discussing him. It's his philosophy, his concept, its not fanatical devotion to discuss him in context of the car he designed. You're a smart guy though as we already deduced, so you know that.

One can discuss the car without mentioning Newey once. One can certainly discuss the car without constantly saying "Newey's a genius" or similar.

Try it. Try to discuss the car without mentioning the designer. Go on, try it.

Answer my question, what are the chances Newey got it wrong? Go on, answer it...

[Just_a_fan]

It is widely known that he "borrowed the fan idea from the Chapperal fan car and the bit about cooling was simply a ruse.
It was there from day one for downforce.
I don't have the book any longer but I did have one the quoted Murray extensively on the subject.

I'm talking about the McLaren F1 road car, not the Brabham BT46B fan car. The road car used the fans to help control the boundary layer in the two side diffusers. From memory, they were originally included to cool the electronics bay and then they had a eureka! moment and used them to help the diffusers too. The Brabham was just a good old fashioned swipe at the regs!

[Just_a_fan]

Newey is the designer, you cannot discuss this car without discussing him. It's his philosophy, his concept, its not fanatical devotion to discuss him in context of the car he designed. You're a smart guy though as we already deduced, so you know that.

One can discuss the car without mentioning Newey once. One can certainly discuss the car without constantly saying "Newey's a genius" or similar.

Try it. Try to discuss the car without mentioning the designer. Go on, try it.

Answer my question, what are the chances Newey got it wrong? Go on, answer it...

Non-zero.

[SR71]

Here are the 2 main aero wings or features as i see it...

The entire car is essentially an upside down wing from tip to tail (red line). This is complimented by the Mid size blue wing.

The front and rear spoilers/diffusers will probably be active as @Just A Fan has suggested. These will constantly be augmented to make sure the Red and Blue lines are being as effective as possible at given speed/performance window.




EDIT:

After looking at some more photos I see a double diffuser, the white line traces this as well as the leading edge of the floor.

Overall still following the RED line as i see it...




EDIT 2

Not sure if this helps but I tried placing the lines in perspective...

[No Lotus]

http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/a ... k=5ptOcBtb

I would assume that in track mode those skirts will be pretty much touching the ground, that way the CoG will be very low and it will generate "many downforces", pretty much a mix between the early 80's skirts and early 90's active suspension.
I really wouldn't think they'd run the car like this on track mode.

The problem is that the lower the aero elements (such as wheel skirts) get to the road, the less suspension travel you can have and the stiffer the ride. That sacrifices ride and mechanical grip. When you get really close to the ground with the aero elements, the car gets really sensitive to ride height and pitch changes.

As Colin Chapman showed us 35 years ago, the way forward is to separate the ground effect generating underbody from the main sprung mass of the car. When you do that the underbody can be truly optimized. You also have the significant advantage that the high DF load bypasses the car's primary suspension. With my retractable movable underbody system there is also no change in suspension geometry going between low ride height track mode and normal ride height street mode.