2025 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya May 30 - June 1

[ringo]

The lengths people go to defend something that is clearly wrong.
What is interesting if Max will reach the magic #12 penalty points within the next two races. Or if the stewards will be afraid to be the ones to apply the points if he does anything like this again in the next races.
The team will really need to talk to him with honesty about professionalism. They all seem to defend everything he does and never yet admonish him for anything. This is not good for his own development as a driver. Hence why he has the same level of maturity and temperament after 10 years of F-1. No other driver behaves like this; even a hot head like Hadjar.

[FittingMechanics]

it isn't quite clear from the wording, but I would see this as a rule for before the restart, not when it's on already.

Yeah, I think this is clearly it. It was introduced because Max would pull alongside before the restart.

Once the restart is on, you can't overtake before the line but checking up to not have any overlap is ridiculous idea and surely was not the intention.

Btw I think F1 should change this and allow overtaking once it goes green. So no need to wait for the line if you are a backmarker. IndyCar does it like that and works fine.

[Tvetovnato]

The lengths people go to defend something that is clearly wrong.
What is interesting if Max will reach the magic #12 penalty points within the next two races. Or if the stewards will be afraid to be the ones to apply the points if he does anything like this again in the next races.
The team will really need to talk to him with honesty about professionalism. They all seem to defend everything he does and never yet admonish him for anything. This is not good for his own development as a driver. Hence why he has the same level of maturity and temperament after 10 years of F-1. No other driver behaves like this; even a hot head like Hadjar.

I think it’s quite clear already that he will never reach 12 penalty points. They had the opportunity this race to make it happen but did not, as it simply is bad for business and the championship. If he does something in Canada (likely as the desperation now is bigger than ever), they will ensure he gets an on track penalty without any penalty points added.

[vorticism]

Ahead before the apex:
https://i.postimg.cc/1tLk2PD3/barc251.jpg
Ahead at the apex:
https://i.postimg.cc/m23vXvkT/barc252.jpg
Ahead after the apex:
https://i.postimg.cc/fWdnXtht/barc253.jpg

Those aren't the rules, but they are the Guides.

Lmao on the ahead before the apex when he was supposed to give the position back.

It was the team that asked him to give the position back, because they were expecting the stewards to act upon it. Typical scenario. Give a position back before you either get a penalty or have the penalty worsened. The decision from the stewards can take several laps to arrive, or in this case, happen after the race has finished. Do you not understand how teams and stewards interact? Pretty basic stuff and I'm not even one the the strat/tyre/racecraft experts on here.

As it relates I got like three or so replies about Max not being ahead at the apex on lap 64. Why would you attempt to argue that, there is an overhead video showing the entire sequence. Do people not watch the race, or the highlights, and then comment? Vision trouble? At least arrive w short term memory.

And I'm the only one defending the Stewards' Guide. I admit, its a strange position to be in.

Verstappen wasn't even 1m meter behind-ahead like the SG famously now allows for, but alongside-ahead or slightly-ahead-ahead. I wonder what that's called in the SG considering -1m is ahead. 0m ahead: Super Ahead. 1m ahead: Extreme Critical Ahead. 2m ahead: Unseen Impossible Extra Ahead. 3m ahead: Elite Hyper Pro Plus Ahead. The important thing though is Verstappen got the stewards to show the audience live on television (on the internet[online]) that even the stewards do not respect the Guide, using it on lap 61, then throwing it in the dustbin on lap 64. Anyway it was a good troll, illustrative, required perfect car gontrol, and the cost was only potentially missing a hallowed Liburdee Media race-like corporate franchise event, and giving an apology without saying sorry. Tell George it was ironic moustache boomer who wanted more heckin' Exciting™ wheel to wheel racing. "Are you not entertained?" Charles Leclerc to his credit also delivered on this there in lap 61, and so incredible was that wheel banging that even the stewards were like "Hell yeah." As for trolling and ignoring questionable requests though, George himself even did a "nah mate that's stupid" at Monaco when he was told to do a drive through. So he's got the rebellious spirit and a BS detector--that's a good combo. He has potential in this regard.

[Wynters]

Pote your repeated claims, your pictures (and both onboards) clearly show Verstappen behind at the point of contact. If he got ahead later, that was because he rammed Russell out of the way. I suppose when Bottas took out 4 cars in Hungary it was actually okay, because once he'd ploughed through all of them his wreck arrived at the apex first? Perhaps Stroll is on to something and is the true master of wheel-to-wheel?

It's pretty remarkable that even Horner isn't trying to defend it...

[avantman]

Pote your repeated claims, your pictures (and both onboards) clearly show Verstappen behind at the point of contact. If he got ahead later, that was because he rammed Russell out of the way. I suppose when Bottas took out 4 cars in Hungary it was actually okay, because once he'd ploughed through all of them his wreck arrived at the apex first? Perhaps Stroll is on to something and is the true master of wheel-to-wheel?

It's pretty remarkable that even Horner isn't trying to defend it...

it does not matter even was his nose marginally behind or in front.
according to modern guidelines they started applying this year, a car trying to overtake on the inside only requires to have his front wheel along a mirror of a car being overtaken. so you can be like a meter behind but push a defending car on the outside. of course there is another important point saying a move should be made cleanly and retaining control of a car. which based on set precedents Russell failed to fulfill( he was not in control based on how the FIA define 'being in control'), but still Max got very strong words from GP who made it very clear he is totally sure it was gonna be a penalty:
Verstappen: Mate I was ahead, he just rammed me off the road!
Lambiase: But that’s the rules. That’s the rules we have to play with. It’s a shame, but that’s the rules.

So, technically Max put his car in the same position as Russell in T1 at the moment of contact, which later as he thought was deemed by the FIA to be legal proper overtaking maneuver. and that was the point he made mirroring that move. He was never going to retake the position and stay ahead, which is why he quickly let Russell by again, this time for good. It was a protest, nothing more than that.

[Quantum]

The lengths people go to defend something that is clearly wrong.

And pretty funny you have to admit.

It's pretty remarkable that even Horner isn't trying to defend it...

Marko wont either...

“Max lifted off the throttle, so we all assumed he was letting Russell through. And then suddenly he accelerated again,” said the 82-year-old. I don’t know what kind of misjudgment or thought process was going on inside him. And then, as they say, all hell broke loose.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/all-hell- ... p-meltdown

[franbatista123]

The Verstappen 10 second penalty is IMO one of the most outrageous penalties that this sport has seen in many years, it's literally unjustifiable that it wasn't far more serious. As others said, not even the team is defending it and telemetry literally shows he accelerated towards Russel.

You could become a rich man by betting that if another driver does the same in the future, he will be "made an example of" to "avoid setting a precedent". i am very curious if we are going to see protests of some kind in the next weeks, specially from Russel.

[Ferry]

Should Max now do a tactical foul, get 1 penalty point more and then start fresh from scratch? Could come in handy next year. He realisticly looses 15 point by a race ban. This season is done anyway

[Seanspeed]

People keep arguing about who was ahead keep missing the point - IT'S NOT RELEVANT. They weren't racing. Max had clearly backed off several seconds before to let Russell by on the outside. They were not competing for the corner so these rules simply dont apply here. Max WAS letting him by, and then stabbed the throttle at the last second with his little temper tantrum, accelerating him into Russell who had a very clear expectation that he was not 'overtaking' Verstappen in a duel, but being given the position.

[ringo]

From a stewarding perspective, Russel got a whole driver through for jumping a chicane intentionally. Why is that pentaly worse than intentially ramming another car and potentially endangering another driver?
It boggles the mind. The FIA need to get its act together.

[SiLo]

Intentional crashing should be a black flag at a minimum.

[Wouter]

Intentional crashing should be a black flag at a minimum.

.
Who said Max was intentional crashing? He wanted to force him wide but they touched a bit.
James Allen was laughing in his debrief: only a few scratches. The video starts where James tells it.

[fritticaldi]

What a complete joke the FIA and Formula One has become. Ban Verstappen minimum two races. This is the trademark of a multiple world champion? Verstappen is a disgrace to the sport and the FIA is protecting him. FIA's Double Standards.

To suggest that the FIA plays favoritism with Verstappen requires some insane levels of blindness. lol

I think it's just the stewards of the day being inconsistent as always.

But yes, he should have been DQ'd. Drivers make mistakes and misjudge things and cause collisions that deserve a 10 second penalty, but any driver who intentionally rams another driver, especially so blatantly and in anger, needs a giant hammer coming down on them immediately because that cannot be tolerated. Racing is too dangerous to treat this incident no differently than a typical racing accident.

Max definitely still has that childish temper tantrum nature about him. Thought maybe age and being a father would temper him a bit on that, but nope. Being raised by Jos will have its consequences, I guess.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-m ... /10729467/

[langedweil]

What a complete joke the FIA and Formula One has become. Ban Verstappen minimum two races. This is the trademark of a multiple world champion? Verstappen is a disgrace to the sport and the FIA is protecting him. FIA's Double Standards.

To suggest that the FIA plays favoritism with Verstappen requires some insane levels of blindness. lol

I think it's just the stewards of the day being inconsistent as always.

But yes, he should have been DQ'd. Drivers make mistakes and misjudge things and cause collisions that deserve a 10 second penalty, but any driver who intentionally rams another driver, especially so blatantly and in anger, needs a giant hammer coming down on them immediately because that cannot be tolerated. Racing is too dangerous to treat this incident no differently than a typical racing accident.

Max definitely still has that childish temper tantrum nature about him. Thought maybe age and being a father would temper him a bit on that, but nope. Being raised by Jos will have its consequences, I guess.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-m ... /10729467/

God, even the SA braketest nonsense gets mentioned as 'proof' ...