2025 McLaren F1 Team

[r85]

Tomorrow I still think Mclaren is the favorite and if the weather is hot or hotter than today expect both Mclarens passing Max in a moment of some laps if Piastri doesn't pass Max at the start.

It’s not going to be hot. It’s going to rain all morning

Sounds like a green and cold track when the race starts...
Verstappen will be eaten up by the others if his tyres start graining in the race. Hope Lando wins tomorrow!

[Darth-Piekus]

Silverstone is nothing like Japan.

Silverstone is one of those tracks where if you have racepace, you can generally overtake. Or at least find ample opportunities for trying. And we know that Mclaren that is not only the fastest car, but is even stronger in races because they simply dont suffer the same tire problems that basically every other team does. They should be favorites again.

Also dont think yellow flags were really the culprit. Both drivers just didn't maximize the car in qualifying. We've seen that a ton this year(and last year).

I'm genuinely curious about the general sentiment within the community. I've often heard people suggest that the McLaren drivers are struggling to maximize the car in qualifying—both this year and last. However, when looking at the data, especially in 2025, the performance gaps have rarely been this tight during the Ground Effect era. It seems clear that McLaren tends to have a notable edge in hot conditions, but that advantage fades in cooler weather, where performance often levels out with the rest of the field.

So I wonder—what data supports the belief that the McLaren is some kind of unbeatable machine? And what evidence suggests that another top-tier driver could jump into that seat and outperform Lando or Oscar, who understand the car so intimately?

It also feels like, when McLaren wins, the credit sometimes goes more to the machinery than the drivers. Meanwhile, Max Verstappen is often portrayed as almost untouchable, as if any win against him must be a fluke. Isn’t it time we start having the conversation that maybe Oscar and Lando are not just competitive—they could be on track to surpass even the most celebrated names of this era? At this point it's becoming boring narrating the same thing over and over when something is not going perfectly with Mclaren.

[Seanspeed]

I'm genuinely curious about the general sentiment within the community. I've often heard people suggest that the McLaren drivers are struggling to maximize the car in qualifying—both this year and last. However, when looking at the data, especially in 2025, the performance gaps have rarely been this tight during the Ground Effect era. It seems clear that McLaren tends to have a notable edge in hot conditions, but that advantage fades in cooler weather, where performance often levels out with the rest of the field.

So I wonder—what data supports the belief that the McLaren is some kind of unbeatable machine? And what evidence suggests that another top-tier driver could jump into that seat and outperform Lando or Oscar, who understand the car so intimately?

It also feels like, when McLaren wins, the credit sometimes goes more to the machinery than the drivers. Meanwhile, Max Verstappen is often portrayed as almost untouchable, as if any win against him must be a fluke. Isn’t it time we start having the conversation that maybe Oscar and Lando are not just competitive—they could be on track to surpass even the most celebrated names of this era? At this point it's becoming boring narrating the same thing over and over when something is not going perfectly with Mclaren.

There literally hasn't been a single session this entire season where Mclaren wasn't the obvious best overall machinery. Doesn't matter the conditions or the track, the Mclaren is always right there at the top. No other car can say anything remotely similar. Even if you disagree that the Mclaren is literally always the best car in any given session, you have to admit, it's far more consistent and reliably fast in any situation than any other car, and it's not even close.

To any reasonable person, it's obvious the 2025 Mclaren is a dominant car. And while yes, qualifying is not some significant strength of the car in relative terms(it's an even better race car than it is a qualifying car), there is still pretty much the potential in every single Q3 for it to be pole if the drivers simply achieve its potential.

Max is given the proper accolades because he's just so clearly the best driver we've ever seen since M Schumacher. Just is. I say this not as a Max fan, just as somebody who doesn't let fan biases get in the way of how I actually evaluate drivers.

[mwillems]

Frustrating to see yellow sectors and Max get a perfect run.

But fair play to them, they knew they have to risk it all so they went last and got best conditions.

I hope the team is ready to fight tomorrow, I don't want to see another conservative race behind Verstappen like Japan.

Silverstone is nothing like Japan.

Silverstone is one of those tracks where if you have racepace, you can generally overtake. Or at least find ample opportunities for trying. And we know that Mclaren that is not only the fastest car, but is even stronger in races because they simply dont suffer the same tire problems that basically every other team does. They should be favorites again.

Also dont think yellow flags were really the culprit. Both drivers just didn't maximize the car in qualifying. We've seen that a ton this year(and last year).

He said yellow sectors, not yellow flags.

Also, overtaking at the front is harder this year even with straights and DRS, as per Austria and Canada with huge straights and DRS.

[BMMR61]

I'm genuinely curious about the general sentiment within the community. I've often heard people suggest that the McLaren drivers are struggling to maximize the car in qualifying—both this year and last. However, when looking at the data, especially in 2025, the performance gaps have rarely been this tight during the Ground Effect era. It seems clear that McLaren tends to have a notable edge in hot conditions, but that advantage fades in cooler weather, where performance often levels out with the rest of the field.

So I wonder—what data supports the belief that the McLaren is some kind of unbeatable machine? And what evidence suggests that another top-tier driver could jump into that seat and outperform Lando or Oscar, who understand the car so intimately?

It also feels like, when McLaren wins, the credit sometimes goes more to the machinery than the drivers. Meanwhile, Max Verstappen is often portrayed as almost untouchable, as if any win against him must be a fluke. Isn’t it time we start having the conversation that maybe Oscar and Lando are not just competitive—they could be on track to surpass even the most celebrated names of this era? At this point it's becoming boring narrating the same thing over and over when something is not going perfectly with Mclaren.

There literally hasn't been a single session this entire season where Mclaren wasn't the obvious best overall machinery. Doesn't matter the conditions or the track, the Mclaren is always right there at the top. No other car can say anything remotely similar. Even if you disagree that the Mclaren is literally always the best car in any given session, you have to admit, it's far more consistent and reliably fast in any situation than any other car, and it's not even close.

To any reasonable person, it's obvious the 2025 Mclaren is a dominant car. And while yes, qualifying is not some significant strength of the car in relative terms(it's an even better race car than it is a qualifying car), there is still pretty much the potential in every single Q3 for it to be pole if the drivers simply achieve its potential.

Max is given the proper accolades because he's just so clearly the best driver we've ever seen since M Schumacher. Just is. I say this not as a Max fan, just as somebody who doesn't let fan biases get in the way of how I actually evaluate drivers.

I've never seen you display fan biases over the years Sean.

I think the McLaren faithful can get caught between defending their drivers ("it's not a dominant car") and the car when it isn't 1-2 on Saturday or Sunday. You rightly point out that McLaren have been "reliably fast in any situation". The key fact which is demonstrably true is the margins are almost always really small. This is not Mercedes 2014 - 2019 with margins usually above 0.5 and sometimes as much as 1.0. Our guys and especially Oscar are reliably putting the car in the position to be P1, yesterday they missed out to the best driver on the grid, no dispute. That the car is both the best car this year, and being driven reliably well by both drivers can be seen in both WDC (1st and 2nd) and WCC (200 points ahead). Neither of these two championship situations would be thus if our drivers were as useless as some are saying. Finally, we need to accept that people love trolling and raining on other's victory parades, it's just human nature, sadly, and we need to stop whinging.

[mwillems]

I'm genuinely curious about the general sentiment within the community. I've often heard people suggest that the McLaren drivers are struggling to maximize the car in qualifying—both this year and last. However, when looking at the data, especially in 2025, the performance gaps have rarely been this tight during the Ground Effect era. It seems clear that McLaren tends to have a notable edge in hot conditions, but that advantage fades in cooler weather, where performance often levels out with the rest of the field.

So I wonder—what data supports the belief that the McLaren is some kind of unbeatable machine? And what evidence suggests that another top-tier driver could jump into that seat and outperform Lando or Oscar, who understand the car so intimately?

It also feels like, when McLaren wins, the credit sometimes goes more to the machinery than the drivers. Meanwhile, Max Verstappen is often portrayed as almost untouchable, as if any win against him must be a fluke. Isn’t it time we start having the conversation that maybe Oscar and Lando are not just competitive—they could be on track to surpass even the most celebrated names of this era? At this point it's becoming boring narrating the same thing over and over when something is not going perfectly with Mclaren.

There literally hasn't been a single session this entire season where Mclaren wasn't the obvious best overall machinery. Doesn't matter the conditions or the track, the Mclaren is always right there at the top. No other car can say anything remotely similar. Even if you disagree that the Mclaren is literally always the best car in any given session, you have to admit, it's far more consistent and reliably fast in any situation than any other car, and it's not even close.

To any reasonable person, it's obvious the 2025 Mclaren is a dominant car. And while yes, qualifying is not some significant strength of the car in relative terms(it's an even better race car than it is a qualifying car), there is still pretty much the potential in every single Q3 for it to be pole if the drivers simply achieve its potential.

Max is given the proper accolades because he's just so clearly the best driver we've ever seen since M Schumacher. Just is. I say this not as a Max fan, just as somebody who doesn't let fan biases get in the way of how I actually evaluate drivers.

We are fastest at Q in most races, and achieved it. Everyone has bias. Reasonable doesn't = agree with you and it's clear to anyone that is reasonable that you don't separate bias from your posts. The car has not been the been the best in every Q, but most. One driver has had issues on a Saturday and the other has largely been fine.

The gaps between Oscar and Max' actual theoretical Q best are almost identical.
Max makes mistakes, we've seen several this year. He lost similar time to Oscar at the final corners yesterday (Vs his previous run on used soft he was slower). So this was not a case of us being entitled to pole and losing it. Had Max not got pole, it would have been because of his own mistakes.

There is, with some people, a tendency to ignore Max' mistakes and failings and caricature him as a super human. He's definitely one of the best drivers ever - up with Hamilton, but flawed as every human is.

Edit: Looks like Max didn't manage the tyres well to get the optimum lap.

[Lazy]

It is the truth at this point no matter how much they try to deny it. The situations are simply too many to be considered a coincidence. That car and its whole support team is tailored 100% to Max. The second car is left to it's own fate and nothing will change even if Fernando Alonso drives that car. If Max left Red Bull they wouldnt be able to update the car to a different driving style.

True

[Henk_v]

Sounds like a green and cold track when the race starts...
Verstappen will be eaten up by the others if his tyres start graining in the race. Hope Lando wins tomorrow!

Could it be max will be _very_ hard to overtake in clean air with that rear wing?

His car is set up for overtaking, not for getting overtaken.

[venkyhere]

Also, overtaking at the front is harder this year even with straights and DRS, as per Austria and Canada with huge straights and DRS.

top speed with DRS ; DRS delta

MCL39
319/321 ; 5
SF25
321/324 ; 7/9
W16
324/323 ; 8/6
RB21
324 ; 3

With full tank fuel, the numbers are going to change, and the traction out of the previous corner will matter more than in Q. I wonder what the overtaking possibilities are into T6 & T15 with chasing car having DRS ; and into T9 with both cars having no DRS. This race has all the ingredients of a blockbuster.

[r85]

Sounds like a green and cold track when the race starts...
Verstappen will be eaten up by the others if his tyres start graining in the race. Hope Lando wins tomorrow!

Could it be max will be _very_ hard to overtake in clean air with that rear wing?

His car is set up for overtaking, not for getting overtaken.

It will definitely be hard to catch him, but he was was painfully slow in the low speed corners yesterday. His tyres are at risk of degrading much earlier than the McLaren or Ferraris because of setup and conditions.

[mwillems]

Also, overtaking at the front is harder this year even with straights and DRS, as per Austria and Canada with huge straights and DRS.

top speed with DRS ; DRS delta

MCL39
319/321 ; 5
SF25
321/324 ; 7/9
W16
324/323 ; 8/6
RB21
324 ; 3

With full tank fuel, the numbers are going to change, and the traction out of the previous corner will matter more than in Q. I wonder what the overtaking possibilities are into T6 & T15 with chasing car having DRS ; and into T9 with both cars having no DRS. This race has all the ingredients of a blockbuster.

Who knows, I'm not sure how it will pan out. If we are able to be close out of the key corners then we are in good stead, but we won't know until later. So far this year, even the Mclaren has found it hard to get close enough when in dirty air, even with long straights. It's a bit of a miserable season when it comes to overtaking and exciting racing, really, this formula perhaps went one season too long.


Oscar's style is different too, and this comes into play if he is 2nd still. He tends to release the throttle and apply the brakes earlier to focus on his exit.

You'd think Brooklands through to the entry to 6/7 is going to possibly decent for us as it is basically a drag away from a hairpin towards mid to low speed complex which should suit Mclaren with better mechanical grip and more DF. The other two DRS zones come from corner exits more likely to suit Red Bull. But in the end these things are complex and I have taken a simplistic view so it could turn out entirely different.

Now probably the crucial point is that on heavier fuel we are relatively faster than in Q trim, so I do expect us to have a decent delta in the race and of course the track will be a little greener due to the rain. It could indeed be quite a fight.

[Watto]

Silverstone is nothing like Japan.

Silverstone is one of those tracks where if you have racepace, you can generally overtake. Or at least find ample opportunities for trying. And we know that Mclaren that is not only the fastest car, but is even stronger in races because they simply dont suffer the same tire problems that basically every other team does. They should be favorites again.

Also dont think yellow flags were really the culprit. Both drivers just didn't maximize the car in qualifying. We've seen that a ton this year(and last year).

I'm genuinely curious about the general sentiment within the community. I've often heard people suggest that the McLaren drivers are struggling to maximize the car in qualifying—both this year and last. However, when looking at the data, especially in 2025, the performance gaps have rarely been this tight during the Ground Effect era. It seems clear that McLaren tends to have a notable edge in hot conditions, but that advantage fades in cooler weather, where performance often levels out with the rest of the field.

So I wonder—what data supports the belief that the McLaren is some kind of unbeatable machine? And what evidence suggests that another top-tier driver could jump into that seat and outperform Lando or Oscar, who understand the car so intimately?

It also feels like, when McLaren wins, the credit sometimes goes more to the machinery than the drivers. Meanwhile, Max Verstappen is often portrayed as almost untouchable, as if any win against him must be a fluke. Isn’t it time we start having the conversation that maybe Oscar and Lando are not just competitive—they could be on track to surpass even the most celebrated names of this era? At this point it's becoming boring narrating the same thing over and over when something is not going perfectly with Mclaren.