2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[djones]

If it is slightly damp at the start, the soft tyre could be an accidental genius move.

[SchuMassa]

There has been a change in the official weather forecast for the #HungarianGP.

According to the FIA forecast the risk of rain at race start time - 3pm local - has risen from 60% to "more than 80%".

#F1 https://t.co/XNHBrwHr5h

[Jolle]

I think the cost cap was not for the PU side. Was it? Not sure.

The cost cap was for everything, including R&D, supply chain, materials and parts. Essentially all finances that are used to run the team fall within the cap. Plus, there is a limit of 3 ICE before you start getting penalties.

23.2 a) Unless hea driver drives for more than one (1) Competitor (see Article 23.3 23.2c) below),
and subject to the additions described below, each driver may use no more than 3 engines
(ICE), 3 motor generator units-heat (MGU-H), 3 turbochargers (TC), 2 energy stores (ES),
2 control electronics (CE), 3 motor generator units-kinetic (MGU-K) and eight (8) of each
of the four (4) elements constituting a set of Engine exhaust systems during a
Championship. For the purpose of this article a set of Engine exhaust systems is deemed
to comprise the following four (4) elements: primaries LHS, primaries RHS, secondary LHS
and secondary RHS.

23.2 b) Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship, a race grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according
to the following table and will be cumulative:
The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty.
The next time an additional element of the same type is used: Five (5) grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding fifteen (15) grid places he will be required to start
the race from the back of the starting grid.
Any of the seven (7) elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty.

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

Changing the PU is always a disadvantage. It will come and bite you later in the season. I’m pretty sure RedBull does it to minimise the chance of a DNF, not a speed advantage. Also, any part changed in parc ferme by the same spec, etc, gives a bit of performance. Ferrari for instance changed spark plus quite often. Or even a new floor, all clean and without any scars or dents.

This is quite clearly not taking advantage of the rules to gain lap time.

[Jolle]

I wonder if the teams have already accounted for a 4th Power Unit in the years budget. Surley it's the most expensive part to replace. So if they need 4 power units, then that must hit the budget very hard.

I think the cost cap was not for the PU side. Was it? Not sure.

The cost cap was for everything, including R&D, supply chain, materials and parts. Essentially all finances that are used to run the team fall within the cap. Plus, there is a limit of 3 ICE before you start getting penalties.

23.2 a) Unless hea driver drives for more than one (1) Competitor (see Article 23.3 23.2c) below),
and subject to the additions described below, each driver may use no more than 3 engines
(ICE), 3 motor generator units-heat (MGU-H), 3 turbochargers (TC), 2 energy stores (ES),
2 control electronics (CE), 3 motor generator units-kinetic (MGU-K) and eight (8) of each
of the four (4) elements constituting a set of Engine exhaust systems during a
Championship. For the purpose of this article a set of Engine exhaust systems is deemed
to comprise the following four (4) elements: primaries LHS, primaries RHS, secondary LHS
and secondary RHS.

23.2 b) Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship, a race grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according
to the following table and will be cumulative:
The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty.
The next time an additional element of the same type is used: Five (5) grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding fifteen (15) grid places he will be required to start
the race from the back of the starting grid.
Any of the seven (7) elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty.

There are a lot of exemptions, so much so that the top teams, with a 300+ mln budget don’t have to cut that much. I assume that engine costs are outside this, because there is already initiative to stay within the 3 units. Going to 4 has no performance gain or will be (with the current state of durability) not a yearly event.

By the way, the cost cap is more to attract new investors then to level the teams out. This way an investor knows how much he has to invest and there is no risk of a new spending war (as in, PMI & Daimler giving blank checks to win)

[Wouter]

[Lock2nl]

I think the cost cap was not for the PU side. Was it? Not sure.

The cost cap was for everything, including R&D, supply chain, materials and parts. Essentially all finances that are used to run the team fall within the cap. Plus, there is a limit of 3 ICE before you start getting penalties.

23.2 a) Unless hea driver drives for more than one (1) Competitor (see Article 23.3 23.2c) below),
and subject to the additions described below, each driver may use no more than 3 engines
(ICE), 3 motor generator units-heat (MGU-H), 3 turbochargers (TC), 2 energy stores (ES),
2 control electronics (CE), 3 motor generator units-kinetic (MGU-K) and eight (8) of each
of the four (4) elements constituting a set of Engine exhaust systems during a
Championship. For the purpose of this article a set of Engine exhaust systems is deemed
to comprise the following four (4) elements: primaries LHS, primaries RHS, secondary LHS
and secondary RHS.

23.2 b) Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship, a race grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according
to the following table and will be cumulative:
The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty.
The next time an additional element of the same type is used: Five (5) grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding fifteen (15) grid places he will be required to start
the race from the back of the starting grid.
Any of the seven (7) elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty.

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

What's not fair about using the third engine? That is what is happening. Fully allowed. And it is not quite voluntary. If the shunt caused number 2 engine to crack (suggested by Honda) and they need a fourth one for Max after the summer break, they will pay for it with a grid penalty. Fair enough.

[Lock2nl]

I think the worst of it will stay to the west of Budapest. But by 1500 hrs you can expect the first drops. And for sure some heavier rain will fall between 1500 an 1600 hrs . Free tombola!

[politburo]

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

It is there in the financial regulations mate, it's not guesswork. The teams are required to make adjustments to include these things as part of relevant costs towards the cap. Even if you use parts from another team you are required to list those.

4.1 (g) Use of Power Units and Standard Supply Components:
Where a Reporting Group Entity undertakes Activities To Enable The Supply Of Power
Units or activities to enable the supply of Standard Supply Components for use by the
F1 Team, that F1 Team must include in its Relevant Costs an amount reflecting the Fair
Value of the goods and services in connection with the Power Units or Standard Supply
Components that are used by the F1 Team.

you can read it here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -06-28.pdf

[El Scorchio]

The cost cap was for everything, including R&D, supply chain, materials and parts. Essentially all finances that are used to run the team fall within the cap. Plus, there is a limit of 3 ICE before you start getting penalties.

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

What's not fair about using the third engine? That is what is happening. Fully allowed. And it is not quite voluntary. If the shunt caused number 2 engine to crack (suggested by Honda) and they need a fourth one for Max after the summer break, they will pay for it with a grid penalty. Fair enough.

Exactly. If there is provision in the rules and the FIA/stewards allow it then it’s absolutely fair play.

[politburo]

I think the cost cap was not for the PU side. Was it? Not sure.

The cost cap was for everything, including R&D, supply chain, materials and parts. Essentially all finances that are used to run the team fall within the cap. Plus, there is a limit of 3 ICE before you start getting penalties.

23.2 a) Unless hea driver drives for more than one (1) Competitor (see Article 23.3 23.2c) below),
and subject to the additions described below, each driver may use no more than 3 engines
(ICE), 3 motor generator units-heat (MGU-H), 3 turbochargers (TC), 2 energy stores (ES),
2 control electronics (CE), 3 motor generator units-kinetic (MGU-K) and eight (8) of each
of the four (4) elements constituting a set of Engine exhaust systems during a
Championship. For the purpose of this article a set of Engine exhaust systems is deemed
to comprise the following four (4) elements: primaries LHS, primaries RHS, secondary LHS
and secondary RHS.

23.2 b) Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship, a race grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according
to the following table and will be cumulative:
The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty.
The next time an additional element of the same type is used: Five (5) grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding fifteen (15) grid places he will be required to start
the race from the back of the starting grid.
Any of the seven (7) elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty.

There are a lot of exemptions, so much so that the top teams, with a 300+ mln budget don’t have to cut that much. I assume that engine costs are outside this, because there is already initiative to stay within the 3 units. Going to 4 has no performance gain or will be (with the current state of durability) not a yearly event.

By the way, the cost cap is more to attract new investors then to level the teams out. This way an investor knows how much he has to invest and there is no risk of a new spending war (as in, PMI & Daimler giving blank checks to win)

As far as the FIA financial regulations for this season are concerned (2021). The power unit costs (such as the supply of power units and activities made in securing a supply of power units) are included as part of the relevant costs (all costs that are relevant to the cap) for each F1 team.

[Jolle]

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

It is there in the financial regulations mate, it's not guesswork. The teams are required to make adjustments to include these things as part of relevant costs towards the cap. Even if you use parts from another team you are required to list those.

4.1 (g) Use of Power Units and Standard Supply Components:
Where a Reporting Group Entity undertakes Activities To Enable The Supply Of Power
Units or activities to enable the supply of Standard Supply Components for use by the
F1 Team, that F1 Team must include in its Relevant Costs an amount reflecting the Fair
Value of the goods and services in connection with the Power Units or Standard Supply
Components that are used by the F1 Team.

you can read it here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -06-28.pdf

So it’s some kind of fair use. Not a set amount or they you can do any trickery. So Mercedes can’t charge 1 pond per PU to lower their budget. But it seems fair game to have an all inclusive deal for not just the 3 PU’s but including blowups etc.

[Restomaniac]

It doesn’t currently look wet enough to effect tyre choices.

[Lock2nl]

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

What's not fair about using the third engine? That is what is happening. Fully allowed. And it is not quite voluntary. If the shunt caused number 2 engine to crack (suggested by Honda) and they need a fourth one for Max after the summer break, they will pay for it with a grid penalty. Fair enough.

Exactly. If there is provision in the rules and the FIA/stewards allow it then it’s absolutely fair play.

But... with all the information about the weather and the a rain race coming, should they not have switched to engine number one?

[Big Tea]

This engine change can really go wrong.
Let's hope for his booing Fans that he will survive the installation laps before the race^^

I cant believe how hurt are some people by innocent booing. Even Lewis said that fuels him.

Do other countries do 'Panto' or is it a Brit thing?

[politburo]

The PU deal is not included in the cost cap afaik.

Regarding the PU change: it is regulated of course but seems not to be fair imo.
New PU means more power in the life cycle.

What's not fair about using the third engine? That is what is happening. Fully allowed. And it is not quite voluntary. If the shunt caused number 2 engine to crack (suggested by Honda) and they need a fourth one for Max after the summer break, they will pay for it with a grid penalty. Fair enough.

Exactly. If there is provision in the rules and the FIA/stewards allow it then it’s absolutely fair play.

If anything, it is more than fair, given the other one is slightly compromised it will mean Verstappen will probably need a 4th engine sooner than others (if applicable) and gets 10-place grid penalty if he has to use it, thus losing him points, which I am sure many people will be happy to see.