2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

I'd like even the tiniest of improvements if they aren't resource heavy. I feel like it sets the tone of how much attention to detail the team needs to be paying, because seemingly every hundredth of a second is worth a lot now.

Secondly, I expect us to use it more often this season. Few races last season where we opted not to use it because of the balance issues. So even a 2% gain, I'll rather have it than not.

Agreed on everything as a whole, quite right.

I do wonder though, how many more races will now be driven with less wing than before? Ferrari had balance issues last year due to flawed design and had to use smaller wing than they'd want, yet this year Red Bull has some balance issues on bumpier tracks, which can hardly be attributed to a flawed design.

We've just seen McLaren start the weekend outright with less wing than expected (Bahrain, China, Suzuka spec) and it worked brilliantly for them. Red Bull did the same thing as Australia, unloading the car allows them better suspension settings, yielding better balance and more stable downforce levels overall. Not surprising with these sensitive floors, but still not expected as a novel feature and contradictory at first look.

Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised seeing many more races with lower wing levels than last year. Barcelona, Silverstone, Zaandvort, Singapore and Texas come to mind... Each for its own reasons. I don't see anyone downsizing any aero surface in Monaco, but still wouldn't surprise me to see it with how some of these early races went.

[scuderiabrandon]

I'd like even the tiniest of improvements if they aren't resource heavy. I feel like it sets the tone of how much attention to detail the team needs to be paying, because seemingly every hundredth of a second is worth a lot now.

Secondly, I expect us to use it more often this season. Few races last season where we opted not to use it because of the balance issues. So even a 2% gain, I'll rather have it than not.

Agreed on everything as a whole, quite right.

I do wonder though, how many more races will now be driven with less wing than before? Ferrari had balance issues last year due to flawed design and had to use smaller wing than they'd want, yet this year Red Bull has some balance issues on bumpier tracks, which can hardly be attributed to a flawed design.

We've just seen McLaren start the weekend outright with less wing than expected (Bahrain, China, Suzuka spec) and it worked brilliantly for them. Red Bull did the same thing as Australia, unloading the car allows them better suspension settings, yielding better balance and more stable downforce levels overall. Not surprising with these sensitive floors, but still not expected as a novel feature and contradictory at first look.

Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised seeing many more races with lower wing levels than last year. Barcelona, Silverstone, Zaandvort, Singapore and Texas come to mind... Each for its own reasons. I don't see anyone downsizing any aero surface in Monaco, but still wouldn't surprise me to see it with how some of these early races went.

If Nugnes' word is worth anything, he wrote in an article along with the Monaco high downforce wing, two other new wings are in the pipeline to better adapt to specific circuits. If you look at the upcoming races, one that's sits between Monaco and the current medium downforce spec would make sense, along with a revised 23 spa spec.

Side note: I would love for them to split load levels at the start of weekends more often. Not doing this for me falls under the conservative approach they should be avoiding. I get in FP1 the track is probably not very representative but as we saw with Red BUll last weekend, you can very quickly sniff out if you are inducing balance issues.

[Sphere3758]

I'd like even the tiniest of improvements if they aren't resource heavy. I feel like it sets the tone of how much attention to detail the team needs to be paying, because seemingly every hundredth of a second is worth a lot now.

Secondly, I expect us to use it more often this season. Few races last season where we opted not to use it because of the balance issues. So even a 2% gain, I'll rather have it than not.

Agreed on everything as a whole, quite right.

I do wonder though, how many more races will now be driven with less wing than before? Ferrari had balance issues last year due to flawed design and had to use smaller wing than they'd want, yet this year Red Bull has some balance issues on bumpier tracks, which can hardly be attributed to a flawed design.

We've just seen McLaren start the weekend outright with less wing than expected (Bahrain, China, Suzuka spec) and it worked brilliantly for them. Red Bull did the same thing as Australia, unloading the car allows them better suspension settings, yielding better balance and more stable downforce levels overall. Not surprising with these sensitive floors, but still not expected as a novel feature and contradictory at first look.

Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised seeing many more races with lower wing levels than last year. Barcelona, Silverstone, Zaandvort, Singapore and Texas come to mind... Each for its own reasons. I don't see anyone downsizing any aero surface in Monaco, but still wouldn't surprise me to see it with how some of these early races went.

If Nugnes' word is worth anything, he wrote in an article along with the Monaco high downforce wing, two other new wings are in the pipeline to better adapt to specific circuits. If you look at the upcoming races, one that's sits between Monaco and the current medium downforce spec would make sense, along with a revised 23 spa spec.

Side note: I would love for them to split load levels at the start of weekends more often. Not doing this for me falls under the conservative approach they should be avoiding. I get in FP1 the track is probably not very representative but as we saw with Red BUll last weekend, you can very quickly sniff out if you are inducing balance issues.

It might just be the relationship/agreement/contract between Charles and Carlos, but it feels like they almost always do exactly the same run plan in practice sessions. It seems to be that there is no trust in working on different run plans and arriving on a good setup at the end of the day.

[Vanja #66]

If Nugnes' word is worth anything, he wrote in an article along with the Monaco high downforce wing, two other new wings are in the pipeline to better adapt to specific circuits. If you look at the upcoming races, one that's sits between Monaco and the current medium downforce spec would make sense, along with a revised 23 spa spec.

Side note: I would love for them to split load levels at the start of weekends more often. Not doing this for me falls under the conservative approach they should be avoiding. I get in FP1 the track is probably not very representative but as we saw with Red BUll last weekend, you can very quickly sniff out if you are inducing balance issues.

I've just taken a look at Monaco 22 and 23 wings, they are different. Completely overlooked it last year. So already 2 specs of high-load wings were made and used, will they really introduce a 3rd? Still hoping for an endplate and flap tip rework

Monaco 22



Monaco 23



Flap is completely flat in 23, unlike 22. Main wing has a smaller flick up towards endplates as well. Looks like it was maximised for load, while 22 wing intentionally wasn't sretched out to its fullest. The 23 wing with latest endplate treatment would work very well in my view.

Back to your thoughts from above, what they would benefit the most now in my view is a low-mid wing like 22 V wing used since Canada, between the mid one used now and low-load Spa/Baku spec. Basically the level used by Red Bull as low-load wing and also in Imola. I have no idea why they'd use a mid-high wing anywhere this year, they've used it last year in races where they couldn't balance the car with high-load wing and in Suzuka as far as I remember.

[Macklaren]

Imagine if the stint on the medium was the last and the race started on the hard, would ppl say that McLaren was the fastest in the race?
I think that if you split the race into three parts, each was faster than a certain team's driver.

Idk...in that case, Lando would have been leading the race until the last lap when Max would have overtaken him and won by 0.7sec. I think speed conclusions would be similar?

[Seanspeed]

But then why is Charles talking about a different PU strategy (energy management)?

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before. It's unbearable.

1 tenth (race pace & qualifying) between Mclaren Red Bull & Ferrari = clear 3rd best.

Please be real. That's 5degC swing in track temperature, one mistake, one bad pit stop away from having a complete 180 on 1st & 3rd force. Ultimately, we'll go to circuits that will favour us more and vice versa. I can't believe the hissy fit people are throwing, this victim complex needs to stop.

In Miami, we were again a tenth slower than Norris without any major updates, why? Because it was very much a favourable circuit along with favourable conditions. Not to even mention Norris had a 10 lap tyre offset. Mclaren came into Imola saying it will be a strong weekend for them & that's what happened, they had the fastest car. Verstappen lucked out with the tow in Q and having track position is crucial. That's how fine the margins are.

You have to accept that this is how it is going to be for the next two years if we stay on this trajectory.

Three races in a row is not some fluke. And I can just see from onboards the Mclaren is just a better car now. I waited til Imola before 'overreacting' towards Mclaren's superiority at Miami, but their characteristics have shown up in both race weekends now.

Like I said, we aren't bad, but we now seem to have no places where either the Red Bull *OR* the Mclaren wont have an advantage on us. That's frustrating to me, cuz we really are relegated to 3rd best, even if we're not far behind. Of course we can still get lucky here and there, I'm talking from a pure competitive standpoint.

And I will admit that the frustration is amplified because it's Mclaren of all teams who has overtaken us, and it hurts to admit it. I'd rather see Max/RB or even Lewis/Merc beat us than Mclaren. lol

[Fakepivot]

why not Mclaren is a historic team with lot of competitive greatness. not sure why we need to be disappointed. its sports enjoy it

[Sidewinder]

That's a very nice way to put it and indeed no one would have even questioned if RB20 is still the best out there in that case

And I like Piergiuseppe Donadoni's poin:
"The MCL38 was once again plagued by that annoying rear overheating that limited its potential at the start of this World Championship, as well as in the final part of the first stint.

On the second stint, Verstappen's Red Bull began to lose temperature, especially at the front, due to annoying understeer, while Norris was able to start to move smoothly without being subjected to that annoying overheating seen at the start of the race.

However, it should be emphasized that the SF-24 2.0 was the most stable on the tires, which was also confirmed by Leclerc at the end of the race, neither overheating nor underheating the tires. However, Leclerc's starting position, coupled with a suboptimal strategy and a mistake, prevented him from coming much closer to Max Verstappen and Lando Norris at the finish line."

With such close gaps, it takes a perfect team performance to win, and sometimes a little luck.
+ I'm hoping the package is still mastered and in Canada car will be faster.

That's what's concerning though. The SF-24 was in its window while the MCL38 was limited by overheating rears due to higher than expected track temperatures, once that stopped being a problem the difference in pace was not small. Only time will tell but I feel the gap is bigger than what Imola let on.

[CouncilorIrissa]

why not Mclaren is a historic team with lot of competitive greatness. not sure why we need to be disappointed. its sports enjoy it

That's exactly why, it's the historical rival.
Taking pleasure in your team beating rivals is sports 101.

[dani5549]

why not Mclaren is a historic team with lot of competitive greatness. not sure why we need to be disappointed. its sports enjoy it

That's exactly why, it's the historical rival.
Taking pleasure in your team beating rivals is sports 101.

Exactly, seeing your old rival beating you after he was basically a ghost for so long(2014-2020) doesn't feel great

[bluechris]

I am happy also for MCLaren and i wish also for Williams the same from the bottom of my heart.
Let's have some day the good old fights.

[Space-heat]

Could just be his presumptions before he's gotten more info.

Or just excuse making, though Ferrari tends to be little pleased with their drivers criticizing their drivetrains.

Either way, very annoying weekend for me. We're not bad, but it's very frustrating that we've gone from clear 2nd best with some hopes for occasional wins throughout the season to being thankful for even being on the podium cuz we're clear 3rd best.

EDIT: In terms of downforce/drag levels, I feel it's more that Mclaren have made a huge leap here than Ferrari suffering from bad choices. Annoying as hell to acknowledge, but that's my read. In comparison to Red Bull, we seem to be about the same as we were before. It's unbearable.

1 tenth (race pace & qualifying) between Mclaren Red Bull & Ferrari = clear 3rd best.

Please be real. That's 5degC swing in track temperature, one mistake, one bad pit stop away from having a complete 180 on 1st & 3rd force. Ultimately, we'll go to circuits that will favour us more and vice versa. I can't believe the hissy fit people are throwing, this victim complex needs to stop.

In Miami, we were again a tenth slower than Norris without any major updates, why? Because it was very much a favourable circuit along with favourable conditions. Not to even mention Norris had a 10 lap tyre offset. Mclaren came into Imola saying it will be a strong weekend for them & that's what happened, they had the fastest car. Verstappen lucked out with the tow in Q and having track position is crucial. That's how fine the margins are.

You have to accept that this is how it is going to be for the next two years if we stay on this trajectory.

Three races in a row is not some fluke. And I can just see from onboards the Mclaren is just a better car now. I waited til Imola before 'overreacting' towards Mclaren's superiority at Miami, but their characteristics have shown up in both race weekends now.

Like I said, we aren't bad, but we now seem to have no places where either the Red Bull *OR* the Mclaren wont have an advantage on us. That's frustrating to me, cuz we really are relegated to 3rd best, even if we're not far behind. Of course we can still get lucky here and there, I'm talking from a pure competitive standpoint.

And I will admit that the frustration is amplified because it's Mclaren of all teams who has overtaken us, and it hurts to admit it. I'd rather see Max/RB or even Lewis/Merc beat us than Mclaren. lol

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car. I know strategy is a part of racing but that is luck. Similar to how Charles was unlucky with the Safety car in Vegas last year.

No safety car in Miami, Lando pits and is behind Charles and 8 seconds behind Max (19.5 s pit stop loss https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 23ztorOsPM). Lando could have closed the gap but we saw in Imola and S2 Miami how hard it is to follow through medium and low speed corners and he would have had to overtake Charles and Max.

When SAR crashed in Miami, Lando was 11.5s ahead. The SC created a 31s gap by picking up Max and not Lando. Great for Lando, but Max and RBR were still on course to win, with LEC P2. All of this doesn't even consider that LEC had to restart his tyres twice (VSC - Max bollard, SC - Sar).

Regardless, it seems Mclaren and RBR are nip and tuck at the moment. For me it doesn't matter who we need to catch up as long as we are closing the gap. Compared to the first six races, in Imola Ferrari were closer than their average race pace deficit. I think we have to wait for Montreal and Barcelona to draw real conclusions where the order shakes out. It could be that Imola suited some of the top three more than others.

At the launched of the MCL38, before Bahrain testing, Stella was talking about 3 parts of the car that they were not able to get ready for launch. The Miami upgrade is mega but it has been in the works for a while. The MCL60 end of year was a better base than the SF23evo mismatch. Fred has even mentioned they originally intended to go towards an intermediate inlet step (similar to Aston intake) but it is assumed the influx of RBR junior engineers helped them towards the overbite. FormulaUNO even had an article early in the season say Ferrari tried the overbite but it didnt show good results.

Be it Ferrari, Mclaren, and Red Bull, I am just grateful we might see racing at the front, moving away from the Max/RB19 procession we've had since late 2022.

[Vanja #66]

Regardless, it seems Mclaren and RBR are nip and tuck at the moment. For me it doesn't matter who we need to catch up as long as we are closing the gap. Compared to the first six races, in Imola Ferrari were closer than their average race pace deficit.

This view is what separated Alonso and Vettel over 10 years ago and how Alonso managed to find solace and motivation in finishing on podium without many wins, but still occasionally increasing the gap to Seb. The only way to consistently improve is to mind your own business and reduce the gap to the front, doesn't matter who is at the front from race to race. Sadly for Alonso and Ferrari at the time, this consistent improvement is what Ferrari lacked, but now has as much capacity to improve as any other team.

[yooogurt]

Idk...in that case, Lando would have been leading the race until the last lap when Max would have overtaken him and won by 0.7sec. I think speed conclusions would be similar?

It's not about who would win, it's about who did the last stint the fastest. It'd be like: "RedBull had a bad weekend, they should've tested the hard in practice, but they got it right on the medium."
But we had the fastest driver by pace change 3 times in the race, and each time it was from a new team.
What's interesting is that Charles on the hard even closed the gap to Max after the pit, even he still drop fighting in the last two laps and losing 1-1.5 seconds.

[Seanspeed]

China and Imola are fair but Lando does not win in Miami without the safety car.

I'm merely talking about competitiveness, not results.

Mclaren were the fastest car in Miami(on Sunday), and not by some tiny amount, either.

Similarly, Ferrari got quite lucky with Piastri's penalty this past Saturday, because I dont think Leclerc is on the podium without it. We could see quite clearly the Mclaren was the more competitive car, both on Saturday and Sunday this time.

And yea, it's fair to enjoy the increased competition right now, there's an element of me that feels that too, but at the same time, being the leftout third wheel in that group doesn't feel great, either. :p