Red Bull RB20

[Venturiation]

[LeveragedTiger]

I agree. If you watch any of the Kyle Engineers video's about this generation of cars, the key to unlocking the performance appears to be generating an area of high pressure above the front of the floor, under the sidepod undercut. That also helps manage the tyre wake by pushing the turbulent air outboard.

Any form of minimalist sidepod, zeropod is ridiculous name because they are still side pods, is going to remove the ability to generate that area of high pressure.

Agree with the comment RE: high pressure above the front floor, and note that Mercedes original zero-pod concept severely increased the amount of bodywork (including the sidepod) near the front of the floor, thereby reducing the high pressure zone above the floor entrance.

However, Red Bull could introduce a "zeropod" in that area to further reduce bodywork near the front of the floor and increase the volume of high pressure air in that region. It's essentially an upside down version of Mercedes original zero-pod concept.

[Sieper]

If you take the word pod and turn it upside down it still reads pod so this theory could work.

[AR3-GP]

[Venturiation]

Provisional before turning it into a mid-wing probably

[K1Plus]

Provisional before turning it into a mid-wing probably

Could Red Bull go the route of the W13 Barcelona test spec style sidepods, albeit with a mid wing overbite?
Or would that be too vanilla?

[JordanMugen]

I think that's a silly analysis. It's a positive pressure gradient, having a smooth slope is not that critical unlike an adverse pressure gradient. The different slopes could just be a function of how it's made, how it's fitted to the chassis (modifications from RB19, the way it is blended into a modified RB19 sidepod shape), legality considerations etc.

[Rodak]

I agree that the ram effect is not useful for the turbo cars, what is useful is the cleaner, cooler air you get from that location. It’s my understanding that there is a fairly large temperature delta, especially when running behind other cars.

A reliable strata of cooler ~1 m elevation air will generally only be present in clean/still air (not following another car). When following another car the air will be churned (wake/dirty air) which contains a mix of radiator outflow, warmer track proximal air, and cooler higher elevation air; now determine if that mix is higher temp than clean/static 1m elevation air. As such, lowered engine air intakes would seemingly be mainly disadvantaged in clean air.

On the current cars, the dirty air effect doesn't seem to "hang in the air" as far back as it used too - I guess I'm basing my theory on vision like this (and I agree, it's hard to compare dampness levels, so I tried to pick photos showing a dry racing line):

https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-i ... et_039.jpg

vs

https://autoaction.com.au/wp-content/up ... 1647303356

You're comparing apples and oranges. In the upper photo the car is running through a damp patch on the track and hence throwing up a short rooster tail; notice the car behind is not generating any spray at all. In the second picture the car is running on a totally damp track, not a single damp patch, and so throws up a constant wet wake. No way does this show a reduction of 'hang in the air'.

[Andi76]

Here's my opinion on the RB20.
The current sidepods are dummies.
The radiators are placed inside the cannons and the inlet air goes upward to the radiators. That's why their inlet is below and facing upwards.
Later they will just bring the smaller sidepods that will only be used just as airflow conditioning devices. They can do whatever they want with those "sidepods".

https://i.ibb.co/qxfV5mc/RB20.png

To be honest - I think it's all a bit exaggerated with these sidepods and everything surrounding it. Red Bull uses an S-Duct and a conventional horizontal inlet, which has so far been somewhat hidden (but has already been seen in places). The upper "lip" has been made very thick and rounded to keep the airflow as clean as possible. The high pressure zone below the intake is an absolutely essential area of EVERY car of this generation, as it is crucial in terms of front wheel wake. In my opinion, this "overbite" with only a vertical intake reduces this a bit - something that would be negative and not desirable. But if you had an S-Duct and a horizontal intake with overbite, the high pressure zone would be stronger and would be shifted slightly "outwards", which in combination with acorrespondingly coordinated flow structure from the front wing, front suspension and outer strake/bargeboard would lead to better front wheel wake management as it would be pushed outwards better, all to the benefit of the undercut area and the lateral area of the floor. The thicker, more rounded lip gives a cleaner airflow above the sidepod. Ultimately revolutionary looking at first glance - but ultimately just a logical but very consistent evolution of the previous concept (especially if you look at the sidepods from the side, you can see how similar the shape is in general)and very much in the style of Newey, who certainly won't allow any solution on the car that would give even the slightest disadvantage in terms of front wheel wake control, as this is absolutely crucial for the performance of an F1 car, whether front or back. And that's why I dare to bet - the RB20 has an S-Duct and a "conventional" horizontal inlet as well as "conventional" radiators in the sidepods. And the sidepods are no dummies. I consider pure centerline cooling to be just as disadvantageous for CoG reasons(you would MASSIVELY increase the CoG, which is the last thing you want in a racing car)
as it is impossible due to the excessive heat radiation in too small a space.

What still worries me is spillage, when the radiators can no longer absorb the air at high speeds. But I've been told that this is now easy to control and less of a problem.
And at the end of the day, this air flows either above or below the sidepod to the rear anyway, depending on the solution.

[Blackout]

"Zeropods" has for the press become a convenient buzzword that we might have to interpret as "small sidepods of any shape." Ultimately if the sidepods shown thus far are dummies the real ones might be something like a deflated version of the FW44 sidepods. This could also be combined with a sidewall to make a sidepod waterslide larger than any seen thus far.

2023

[FDD]

Starting with the horizontal top inlet and the vertical S ducting, it's quite possible there is a vertical component to the cooling inlet. Or maybe it just goes all the way to the tub and underneath it is the S duct. No doubt the S duct is feeding some area under the bodywork to provide both better flow conditioning inside and also clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow.

Please, can you explain aero "mechanics" how S duct (if it is) "...clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow."

Thank you.

[organic]

Starting with the horizontal top inlet and the vertical S ducting, it's quite possible there is a vertical component to the cooling inlet. Or maybe it just goes all the way to the tub and underneath it is the S duct. No doubt the S duct is feeding some area under the bodywork to provide both better flow conditioning inside and also clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow.

Please, can you explain aero "mechanics" how S duct (if it is) "...clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow."

Thank you.

[organic]

Mark Lane's theorised design has a stacked s-duct next to vertical radiator inlet in the undercut

[Venturiation]

Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004

[SiLo]

ZEROPODS confirmed

Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004

Be interesting to see how they manage drag if they move to a design like that. Unless the side pods decreasing drag on the rear wheels is NOT where a large portion of overall car drag comes from.