Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Joseki
Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Honda Power Unit

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hemichromis wrote:
Joseki wrote:Wazari, I have a pretty straightforward question that hopefully you can answer with a "yes" or "no" if it's not too much for you to say here. Anyway, the question is: are the data Pirelli (I believe) showed some time ago regarding projected power increase (in %) from to 2015 to 2017 real?

I'm asking you this 'cause many believed on the internet there were some fake numbers in there (and obviously 'cause there was an interesting +22% that I suspected was Honda).
The largest figure would probably have been Manor; 2014 Ferrari engine (end of 2015) to 2017 Mercedes engine.
I don't know if the 2015 Honda PU had more "usable power" in race then the 2014 Ferrari PU considering fuel saving and the lack of hybrid power.

hemichromis
hemichromis
14
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Joseki wrote:
hemichromis wrote:
Joseki wrote:Wazari, I have a pretty straightforward question that hopefully you can answer with a "yes" or "no" if it's not too much for you to say here. Anyway, the question is: are the data Pirelli (I believe) showed some time ago regarding projected power increase (in %) from to 2015 to 2017 real?

I'm asking you this 'cause many believed on the internet there were some fake numbers in there (and obviously 'cause there was an interesting +22% that I suspected was Honda).
The largest figure would probably have been Manor; 2014 Ferrari engine (end of 2015) to 2017 Mercedes engine.
I don't know if the 2015 Honda PU had more "usable power" in race then the 2014 Ferrari PU considering fuel saving and the lack of hybrid power.
Yes but the 2014 Ferrari was not good in 2014 and now they are changing to the most powerful engine on the grid. It's possible it's Honda and i certainly want it to be!

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godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

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The 2015 engine made good power compared to the other power units, it's fuel efficiency and electric generation were lacking. In fact the 2015 engine made more peak power than the 2016 engine for a while.
Saishū kōnā

Joseki
Joseki
28
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Now it's official: Esso will leave McLaren (and Honda).

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Wazari
628
Joined: 17 Jun 2015, 15:49

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Joseki wrote:Wazari, I have a pretty straightforward question that hopefully you can answer with a "yes" or "no" if it's not too much for you to say here. Anyway, the question is: are the data Pirelli (I believe) showed some time ago regarding projected power increase (in %) from to 2015 to 2017 real?

I'm asking you this 'cause many believed on the internet there were some fake numbers in there (and obviously 'cause there was an interesting +22% that I suspected was Honda).
Are you asking if the Honda PU in 2017 will have a 22% increase from the start of 2015? If that's the question, my answer is I don't know. I really don't know what the HP figures will be at the start of the 2017 season in either qualifying or race mode.
“If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”

“Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.”

-- Honda Soichiro

Sasha
Sasha
62
Joined: 07 Jul 2013, 07:43

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Honda and RB in 2018? RB has Esso now is Honda next?

VFC_Cipher
VFC_Cipher
1
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 05:23
Location: Houston, TX, USA

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Esso as per Wikipedia "Esso /ˈɛsoʊ/ is a trade name for ExxonMobil and its related companies." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esso

So if ExMo leaves Mclaren for RB then it logically follows the trade names of the parent corporation would leave as well. This is non-news.

Joseki
Joseki
28
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Sasha wrote:Honda and RB in 2018? RB has Esso now is Honda next?
RBR has a contract with Renault that expires at the end of 2018.

michl420
michl420
23
Joined: 18 Apr 2010, 17:08
Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I read from a respected source, which i don`t want name here, that the Peak power difference between Mercedes, ferrari and Renault mid season 16 hp was. Hard to believe but who knows.

Joseki
Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Honda Power Unit

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According to F1AT that's are the peak power figures for all the manufacturer in Abu Dhabi (quali mode):

Mercedes: 975 hp
Ferrari: 970 hp
Renault: 940 hp
Honda: 920 hp
Ferrari 2015 (Toro Rosso): 890 hp

These are figure for the race (not counting the huge amount of fuel saving Honda has to do):

Mercedes: 940 hp
Ferrari: 940 hp
Renault: 915 hp
Honda: 900 hp
Ferrari 2015 (Toro Rosso): 880 hp

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Craigy
84
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 10:20

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Joseki wrote:According to F1AT that's are the peak power figures for all the manufacturer in Abu Dhabi (quali mode):

Mercedes: 975 hp
Ferrari: 970 hp
Renault: 940 hp
Honda: 920 hp
Ferrari 2015 (Toro Rosso): 890 hp

These are figure for the race (not counting the huge amount of fuel saving Honda has to do):

Mercedes: 940 hp
Ferrari: 940 hp
Renault: 915 hp
Honda: 900 hp
Ferrari 2015 (Toro Rosso): 880 hp
Does F1AT have good sources for this stuff, or are these all just guesses?

mrluke
mrluke
33
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Apologies to resurrect the fuel usage discussion,

Is lift and coast the only way teams seek to conserve fuel?

Is it possible / likely that teams are running at say 90kg/hr for periods of the lap / race rather than at the full 100kg/hr?

If this is true then it would be possible to see Mercedes say running at 85kg/hr, letting their chassis advantage deliver the laptime while other teams are running at 90kg/hr + to maintain their target laptime? Knowing the constraints of the Mclaren chassis and associated drag, maybe this puts Honda into the higher bracket therefore giving a more "thirsty" engine?

If we watch Mercedes onboard from the races they are quite happy to pull from 8krpm or even 6krpm between chicanes rather than dropping it down a further gear, I dont think the power bands are anywhere near as narrow as suggested in this thread. They also tend to be very careful with throttle application in 4th and don't even rush to 100% in 5th.

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rscsr
51
Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 13:02
Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit

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mrluke wrote:Apologies to resurrect the fuel usage discussion,

Is lift and coast the only way teams seek to conserve fuel?

Is it possible / likely that teams are running at say 90kg/hr for periods of the lap / race rather than at the full 100kg/hr?

If this is true then it would be possible to see Mercedes say running at 85kg/hr, letting their chassis advantage deliver the laptime while other teams are running at 90kg/hr + to maintain their target laptime? Knowing the constraints of the Mclaren chassis and associated drag, maybe this puts Honda into the higher bracket therefore giving a more "thirsty" engine?

If we watch Mercedes onboard from the races they are quite happy to pull from 8krpm or even 6krpm between chicanes rather than dropping it down a further gear, I dont think the power bands are anywhere near as narrow as suggested in this thread. They also tend to be very careful with throttle application in 4th and don't even rush to 100% in 5th.
Using 100kg/h and lift and coast at the end of the straight is generally speaking faster than running at a lower rate and not using lift and coast (so that you use the same amount of fuel for the straight). But those cars are grip limited for a long time. I think Bottas said in 2015 when they use full power they can spin their rear tyres until 4th gear. So it could well be that they are not using full power at those lower gears at all.

Joseki
Joseki
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 19:30

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Craigy wrote:Does F1AT have good sources for this stuff, or are these all just guesses?
They said after Silverstone that the MP4-31 had rear suspension problems (now confirmed by Wazari), so I guess you can say they have good sources.

tom101
tom101
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Joined: 25 Feb 2016, 23:44

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Thanks you very much Wazari san

your words give us hope :wink: