2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Watto]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

Croft revealed he has been informed that Red Bull ignored concerns about the design of their 2025 car.

"Fair play to Max. He had the spin, he got his head down, and he salvaged a fifth-place finish from that race, and was still making progress at the end," Croft told the Sky Sports F1 podcast.

"Yuki - I don't know where we go with Yuki on this one. He's still struggling with the car. It's been a lot of races now. He'll be there 'til the end of the season. We all want to see him do so much better.


"But it was told to me at the British Grand Prix that Red Bull have basically designed a car that is the fastest possible car that the data could possibly suggest, but it's undriveable. And they were warned about it, in terms of the design team, but they ignored the warnings.

"Well, it's kind of coming home to roost a little bit. And maybe - maybe they're missing Adrian Newey an awful lot more than Christian Horner said they would or ever thought they would.”

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

Croft revealed he has been informed that Red Bull ignored concerns about the design of their 2025 car.

"Fair play to Max. He had the spin, he got his head down, and he salvaged a fifth-place finish from that race, and was still making progress at the end," Croft told the Sky Sports F1 podcast.

"Yuki - I don't know where we go with Yuki on this one. He's still struggling with the car. It's been a lot of races now. He'll be there 'til the end of the season. We all want to see him do so much better.


"But it was told to me at the British Grand Prix that Red Bull have basically designed a car that is the fastest possible car that the data could possibly suggest, but it's undriveable. And they were warned about it, in terms of the design team, but they ignored the warnings.

"Well, it's kind of coming home to roost a little bit. And maybe - maybe they're missing Adrian Newey an awful lot more than Christian Horner said they would or ever thought they would.”

I've certainly seen similar comments. One attributed that warning to Newey himself.

[MYsee]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

Croft revealed he has been informed that Red Bull ignored concerns about the design of their 2025 car.

"Fair play to Max. He had the spin, he got his head down, and he salvaged a fifth-place finish from that race, and was still making progress at the end," Croft told the Sky Sports F1 podcast.

"Yuki - I don't know where we go with Yuki on this one. He's still struggling with the car. It's been a lot of races now. He'll be there 'til the end of the season. We all want to see him do so much better.


"But it was told to me at the British Grand Prix that Red Bull have basically designed a car that is the fastest possible car that the data could possibly suggest, but it's undriveable. And they were warned about it, in terms of the design team, but they ignored the warnings.

"Well, it's kind of coming home to roost a little bit. And maybe - maybe they're missing Adrian Newey an awful lot more than Christian Horner said they would or ever thought they would.”

This sounds like the story for the RB20, not the RB21.

[Ashwinv16]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

Croft revealed he has been informed that Red Bull ignored concerns about the design of their 2025 car.

"Fair play to Max. He had the spin, he got his head down, and he salvaged a fifth-place finish from that race, and was still making progress at the end," Croft told the Sky Sports F1 podcast.

"Yuki - I don't know where we go with Yuki on this one. He's still struggling with the car. It's been a lot of races now. He'll be there 'til the end of the season. We all want to see him do so much better.


"But it was told to me at the British Grand Prix that Red Bull have basically designed a car that is the fastest possible car that the data could possibly suggest, but it's undriveable. And they were warned about it, in terms of the design team, but they ignored the warnings.

"Well, it's kind of coming home to roost a little bit. And maybe - maybe they're missing Adrian Newey an awful lot more than Christian Horner said they would or ever thought they would.”

This sounds like the story for the RB20, not the RB21.

The exact words where said by Sergio Perez during the Azerbaijan free practice interview stating he warned them about it in Spanish GP in 2024 but they ignored him (Well mostly Christian Horner decided to ignore him)

[Watto]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

This sounds like the story for the RB20, not the RB21.

The exact words where said by Sergio Perez during the Azerbaijan free practice interview stating he warned them about it in Spanish GP in 2024 but they ignored him (Well mostly Christian Horner decided to ignore him)

Yeah that is pretty fair I think. Though I wonder if that carried over to the RB21?

There was a comment in here somewhere from Waché, that they designed a car with a narrow operating window, to be as quick as possible cars with a large operating window tend to be slow. So I wonder if/how much the though process carried over, as I think they both can have a very simular end result if the car isn't working in a windw either driver can really operating - think we saw Max had his hands full at Silverstone a few times, even quali it looked like in the low speed stuff it was fairly unstable.

[organic]

I think they just misunderstood or gambled incorrectly as a technical team where laptime could be found in the mature state of this ruleset when developing the rb20 (see all of their comments about chasing peak performance etc) and weren't able to sufficiently backpedal and undo this with their 2025 modifications given the lack of correlation that still exists with red bull's tools

[basti313]

I think they just misunderstood or gambled incorrectly as a technical team where laptime could be found in the mature state of this ruleset when developing the rb20 (see all of their comments about chasing peak performance etc) and weren't able to sufficiently backpedal and undo this with their 2025 modifications given the lack of correlation that still exists with red bull's tools

Absolutely. Plus they are very limited on CFD and windtunnel, they need to run the 26 car and not make a concept change on the 25 car.

[Emag]

I think RedBull right now is in a similar situation to McLaren early 2010s.

McLaren lost Mercedes and it turned out they were way more important than McLaren cared to admit. It just took a couple of years for them to start to go downhill.

Similarly, RedBull lost Dietrich and its turning out he was way more important than it appeared.

I hope they don’t make McLaren’s mistake and wait too long to act. Sure, Horner’s scandal didn’t help, but this team was coming apart before that. I am not entirely convinced firing Horner was the right move, but on the other hand, it was kind of self-inflicted in his part as well.

I personally would be surprised if Max stays at RedBull right now, but lets wait and see how things will transpire.

[Watto]

I think RedBull right now is in a similar situation to McLaren early 2010s.

McLaren lost Mercedes and it turned out they were way more important than McLaren cared to admit. It just took a couple of years for them to start to go downhill.

Similarly, RedBull lost Dietrich and its turning out he was way more important than it appeared.

I hope they don’t make McLaren’s mistake and wait too long to act. Sure, Horner’s scandal didn’t help, but this team was coming apart before that. I am not entirely convinced firing Horner was the right move, but on the other hand, it was kind of self-inflicted in his part as well.

I personally would be surprised if Max stays at RedBull right now, but lets wait and see how things will transpire.

I totally agree here, and I think there is an element of this too in why Newey left - I do tend to believe a part of it was he had a falling how with Horner.

But under Dietrich the were almost a privateer team there was no board controlling them no corporate interests looking at the money spend on the investment and returns etc - I know Newey commented that was something he liked you didn't really have to convince him too much to upgrade facilities if it would improve the team

I think even if the Horner scandal is what broke it, I am not really convinced he would have stayed around with where the team management is heading.


On Horner's sacking I think it depends exactly what is happening behind the scenes. If it was a power play by the Austrian side of RB and the Versthapphens I feel a little comfortable about it in that I think he is being used as a bit. of a scape goat, not entirely without blame as I think he is responsible for their downfall too. But I don't think much really gets done without Markos influence I doubt Dietrich pulls out of the Porsche deal without Markos advice and go down the path of RBPT, I think to some extent his influence is still all over RBR he has always been the spokesperson on upcoming updates. The Porsche deal was probably designed to stop this kinda conflict. I do think overall Horner would have had more influence and this blame.

However if Horner had lost the confidence of some key staff in the engineering teams than I can more easily understand the reasoning and justify it even if its a little harsh.

[Seanspeed]

But under Dietrich the were almost a privateer team there was no board controlling them no corporate interests looking at the money spend on the investment and returns etc - I know Newey commented that was something he liked you didn't really have to convince him too much to upgrade facilities if it would improve the team

Initially, Red Bull were pretty brash in how they went about things, very built on their sort of fun and adrenaline-fueled brand values. This wasn't just in the PR world, they really did run their team in a looser way, and they were backed by big bucks. It's exactly what got them to offer Newey the freedom to build the technical side of the team to his liking, when most other teams would have been too rigid and established to do so, or simply lacked the resources to make it meaningful.

But the big spending and 'corporate-free' attitudes would not have lasted super long if the success wasn't there. If they weren't winning, eventually RB higher ups would absolutely have stepped in and started questioning their big investment into the sport as a constructor. And it wouldn't have taken until Dietrich's death or anything, this would have likely happened way, way earlier. Without Newey, they might well have been out of the sport by like 2015. Obviously we cant know what they'd have done without him, but it almost assuredly would have never been anything like what they did ultimately achieve.

Newey was always their golden goose.

[AR3-GP]

Tsunoda is out at the end of the year: https://www.gpblog.com/en/exclusive-new ... w-teammate

2026: Max, Isack

[Bill]

They just had a new team principal so who is making those decisions,the allege source say yuki contract is being terminated ,well yuki doesn't have contract with redbull for next year so you cant terminate a-contract that doesn't exist.

[avantman]

The exact words where said by Sergio Perez during the Azerbaijan free practice interview stating he warned them about it in Spanish GP in 2024 but they ignored him (Well mostly Christian Horner decided to ignore him)

2023 I think

[Alexf1]

Tsunoda is out at the end of the year: https://www.gpblog.com/en/exclusive-new ... w-teammate

2026: Max, Isack

And even if Max leaves, they've got enough replacements: 3 guys in F2 of which Lindblad already has a super license and Marti is on 29 points, so with this years F2 points + a Formula Regional this winter he'll have his SL too.

[Dee]

Tsunoda is out at the end of the year: https://www.gpblog.com/en/exclusive-new ... w-teammate

2026: Max, Isack

This was always going to be the way, wasn't it? With Honda leaving RB..