2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[wowgr8]

The thing is that surprisingly tyre wear was not an issue for anyone in Jeddah. Hamilton started on Hards and stayed for 40 or even more laps on them (not sure about the exact number anymore) and he still didn’t have an obvious drop of pace.
So RedBull with their dragster setup combined with little tyre wear on this track had an advantage. Also Binotto said so:

#AMuS Mattia Binotto admitted that Ferrari didn't make the optimal setup choice in Jeddah:

"Red Bull was also driving with more downforce at first but then changed it [Saturday]. We stayed with our downforce level but unfortunately the tyre wear was not an issue in this race."

I wonder whether Ferrari might have given lower downforce a shot if they'd managed to run race sims in FP2, though I don't think they even had the Red Bull type wing available at the track

RE the dragster setup, the question is really how that sort of downforce level would affect the Ferrari, I don't think they'd match that exceptional Red Bull straight line performance, what about the corners? Where would they be in relation to RB on the same wing level, and how much would the degredation be affected? That's why I don't think it's easy to say they should've gone with less downforce, we need a few more races at differing tracks to draw conclusions

[AR3-GP]

It is speculated that the Ferrari PU is slightly better than the Honda. Therefore with the same drag level, the Ferrari is quicker.

RB and Ferrari seem to have massive ideological differences in how to approach Bahrain and SA. I believe they will converge in downforce levels for the coming circuits.

[dialtone]

This is 1-2 quali laps from PER and LEC, I've checked LEC v BOT as well anyway and the curves are similar.
Reposting this mostly to talk about an item that really is bugging me and I can't quite explain: The lack of sharp corners in the Ferrari.

RBR is capable of getting very sharp drops in speed in the corners, while Ferrari always seems to be tapering off, if not even shedding some speed, for the first few times I thought that was just a FP engine mode, but clearly they ran the same in both Q session in the first 2 races.

I would have said it's driving style, but SAI, LEC and BOT kind of show the same (or very similar) behavior of lack of sharp drops. So I'm left with 2 options:

1) Engine mode, even in quali, is very aggressive at recovering energy, could explain why Ferrari is really good with traction out of the corner.
2) They sacrifice that sharp corner for porpoising reasons and can't quite push the car as hard as they wanted when braking from top speed.

What do you folks think?

[JPBD1990]

Redbull are talking up a weight reduction for Imola. Ferrari talking about a new floor around Australia/imola at testing, now Binotto has said nothing for Australia so I assume imola.

I think it’s interesting that people assume just because redbull is more overweight that Ferrari won’t also be targeting weight reductions. I can only assume these will form part of their upgrade packages moving forward.

Developments are going to be super exciting this season. Hopefully nobody runs away with it (unless it’s Ferrari). These races have been a delight.

[AR3-GP]

Redbull are talking up a weight reduction for Imola. Ferrari talking about a new floor around Australia/imola at testing, now Binotto has said nothing for Australia so I assume imola.

I think it’s interesting that people assume just because redbull is more overweight that Ferrari won’t also be targeting weight reductions. I can only assume these will form part of their upgrade packages moving forward.

Developments are going to be super exciting this season. Hopefully nobody runs away with it (unless it’s Ferrari). These races have been a delight.

Ferrari will of course have their on weight reduction, but if Ferrari is currently lighter than the RB, then RB will gain some ground when they hit 798. If Ferrari is heavier than RB, then Ferrari will gain some ground when they hit 798.

Who really knows. Maybe Ferrari is heavier than they have admitted publically.

[aleks_ader]

Or RB is playing games. WHO KNOWS.

[Vanja #66]

I would have said it's driving style, but SAI, LEC and BOT kind of show the same (or very similar) behavior of lack of sharp drops. So I'm left with 2 options:

1) Engine mode, even in quali, is very aggressive at recovering energy, could explain why Ferrari is really good with traction out of the corner.
2) They sacrifice that sharp corner for porpoising reasons and can't quite push the car as hard as they wanted when braking from top speed.

What do you folks think?

Great analysis! Not an expert in this area, but a lot of things point to very aggressive energy recovery under braking, as you mentioned it. Carrying bit more corner speed is due to higher downforce levels.

[AR3-GP]

https://i.imgur.com/5RYPcgV.png

This is 1-2 quali laps from PER and LEC, I've checked LEC v BOT as well anyway and the curves are similar.
Reposting this mostly to talk about an item that really is bugging me and I can't quite explain: The lack of sharp corners in the Ferrari.

RBR is capable of getting very sharp drops in speed in the corners, while Ferrari always seems to be tapering off, if not even shedding some speed, for the first few times I thought that was just a FP engine mode, but clearly they ran the same in both Q session in the first 2 races.

I would have said it's driving style, but SAI, LEC and BOT kind of show the same (or very similar) behavior of lack of sharp drops. So I'm left with 2 options:

1) Engine mode, even in quali, is very aggressive at recovering energy, could explain why Ferrari is really good with traction out of the corner.
2) They sacrifice that sharp corner for porpoising reasons and can't quite push the car as hard as they wanted when braking from top speed.

What do you folks think?

I think you are misinterpreting the data. The Ferrari, Alfa have higher minimum speeds because they have more downforce. You shouldn't be reading this as Red Bull being able to slow down more. You should read it as Ferrari not having to slow down as much due to their downforce levels which allow greater apex speeds.

[dialtone]

https://i.imgur.com/5RYPcgV.png

This is 1-2 quali laps from PER and LEC, I've checked LEC v BOT as well anyway and the curves are similar.
Reposting this mostly to talk about an item that really is bugging me and I can't quite explain: The lack of sharp corners in the Ferrari.

RBR is capable of getting very sharp drops in speed in the corners, while Ferrari always seems to be tapering off, if not even shedding some speed, for the first few times I thought that was just a FP engine mode, but clearly they ran the same in both Q session in the first 2 races.

I would have said it's driving style, but SAI, LEC and BOT kind of show the same (or very similar) behavior of lack of sharp drops. So I'm left with 2 options:

1) Engine mode, even in quali, is very aggressive at recovering energy, could explain why Ferrari is really good with traction out of the corner.
2) They sacrifice that sharp corner for porpoising reasons and can't quite push the car as hard as they wanted when braking from top speed.

What do you folks think?

I think you are misinterpreting the data. The Ferrari, Alfa have higher minimum speeds because they have more downforce. You shouldn't be reading this as Red Bull being able to slow down more. You should read it as Ferrari not having to slow down as much due to their downforce levels which allow greater apex speeds.

I'm very aware of why there is a difference in top speed, I don't have any concerns about that.

Look at the breaking area in T13, the Ferrari breaking there is a giant rounded corner while Perez is just sharp breaking. That was an area where Ferrari was porpoising a lot. Same thing can be said for basically any breaking zone after T13, they are all round and the RedBull's are all sharp.

The Merc W13 looks a bit more similar to the Ferrari but even they have sharper braking points. I don't think this has anything to do with top speed or level of downforce. Ferrari was doing this in Bahrain as well even though the DF levels were certainly more similar between Ferrari and RedBull.

EDIT:

Look at these 2 corners for example:


Only Merc and Ferrari drop speed close to the corner, RBR flattens out and then sharp braking.

Looking at Bahrain it was actually a little bit better:


This is the worst part of Bahrain (T1 and T4) where Ferrari had rounded corners and areas where they had porpoising in testing.

I think this has to do with porpoising as in Bahrain it also mostly happened in corners with approach speed above 250kmh, anything below and Ferrari was sharp too.

EDIT 3: I think this is positive for the future, if it's porpoising, looking at this telemetry, there is almost as much potential to improvement on lap time as there is for the Merc here IMHO, above 250kmh both Merc and Ferrari taper off on corner approach.

[Juzh]

Those falling rounded edges are 100% not where drivers are on the brakes already, it is almost certainly just down to battery deployment strategies at the end of straights. There exists this ultra aggressive recharge mode when you'll actually run MGU-K against the ICE to charge up the energy store and this is what's likely happening here on ferrari and mercedes. Red bull with their very low drag is able to pump more juice at top end because they don't use as much mid-straight trying to overcome drag, or they might inherently have more energy recovery capabilities.

In bahrain differences in drag levels were already very apparent, it wasn't just in saudi arabia, even if it went to another level in that race.

[dialtone]

Those falling rounded edges are 100% not where drivers are on the brakes already, it is almost certainly just down to battery deployment strategies at the end of straights. There exists this ultra aggressive recharge mode when you'll actually run MGU-K against the ICE to charge up the energy store and this is what's likely happening here on ferrari and mercedes. Red bull with their very low drag is able to pump more juice at top end because they don't use as much mid-straight trying to overcome drag, or they might inherently have more energy recovery capabilities.

In bahrain differences in drag levels were already very apparent, it wasn't just in saudi arabia, even if it went to another level in that race.

Yep, the yellow background is where driver is either <97% throttle or >0% braking, so yes that's correct.
As per the energy recovery due to differences in aero drag, I'm not really convinced it's the case. The Merc had a smaller rear wing compared to Ferrari in Jeddah, and Merc's engine is definitely not that much worse than the others, and yet it shows the same behavior.

Also these are all qualifying laps where there's no need to reach the end of the lap with any battery on board so...



At around 0:34 seconds is the entry to T13, the corner with the most roundedness from Ferrari. If you go frame by frame you'll see that the rev lights from the Ferrari wheel are long gone, and the wheel started turning, when RedBull's are still all turned on, that's not just energy recovery, that's a driver that has lifted early, it takes half a second for the Red Bull to do the same and in a sharper way.

EDIT: judging throttle and brake tracks too strictly in this telemetry is not advisable because they aren't that precise, you need a few points to make a trend, as opposed to measuring a single point, because at 4-5Hz jittery sample rate of this telemetry you get errors that could be all the way up to 0.4-5s differences in when the sample is taken which is an eternity at a corner.

[dialtone]

And before anyone comes in and says that it's because LEC is ahead in the lap (which he certainly is) here 2 screenshots of when they approach their braking point with physical references around the lap:

LEC's first losing lights on the RPM limiter:


He has 6.5 full billboards on the left (you can see that Perez is a bit behind because he has 7 and then some more space there).



This is where Perez is dropping the RPMs, he's turning the wheel more and his braking point is really 4 full banners and is braking with the wheel turning too, sign of stability under braking.

The more I look for this stuff the more I believe it has to do with porpoising and not other stuff.

[Juzh]

Those falling rounded edges are 100% not where drivers are on the brakes already, it is almost certainly just down to battery deployment strategies at the end of straights. There exists this ultra aggressive recharge mode when you'll actually run MGU-K against the ICE to charge up the energy store and this is what's likely happening here on ferrari and mercedes. Red bull with their very low drag is able to pump more juice at top end because they don't use as much mid-straight trying to overcome drag, or they might inherently have more energy recovery capabilities.

In bahrain differences in drag levels were already very apparent, it wasn't just in saudi arabia, even if it went to another level in that race.

Yep, the yellow background is where driver is either <97% throttle or >0% braking, so yes that's correct.
As per the energy recovery due to differences in aero drag, I'm not really convinced it's the case. The Merc had a smaller rear wing compared to Ferrari in Jeddah, and Merc's engine is definitely not that much worse than the others, and yet it shows the same behavior.

Also these are all qualifying laps where there's no need to reach the end of the lap with any battery on board so...



At around 0:34 seconds is the entry to T13, the corner with the most roundedness from Ferrari. If you go frame by frame you'll see that the rev lights from the Ferrari wheel are long gone, and the wheel started turning, when RedBull's are still all turned on, that's not just energy recovery, that's a driver that has lifted early, it takes half a second for the Red Bull to do the same and in a sharper way.

EDIT: judging throttle and brake tracks too strictly in this telemetry is not advisable because they aren't that precise, you need a few points to make a trend, as opposed to measuring a single point, because at 4-5Hz jittery sample rate of this telemetry you get errors that could be all the way up to 0.4-5s differences in when the sample is taken which is an eternity at a corner.

You're reading too much into the whole thing. Ferrari is disengaging mgu-k at the end of most straights and because they're using relatively higher downforce/drag compared to red bull they start to drop some speed. This is very normal behaviour. It doesn't matter if it's a Q3 lap as there's not nearly enough energy available to pump at full power for the entire lap even with 100% battery. Red bull is so low drag it's not dropping any speed at all when they're turning off mgu-k at speed below 300 km/h, that's why a sharp drop instead of gradual one. What's more significant is the fact they're also not doing that at 330+ km/h with DRS, which is why I think they might have inherently more energy recovery trough mgu-h and on the brakes.

Actually you can even see on leclerc's steering wheel that he is in fact recovering some energy while on full throttle. He goes from 59 to 60% before braking for T13, and then again from 38 to 39% before T22.

[ferkan]

Those falling rounded edges are 100% not where drivers are on the brakes already, it is almost certainly just down to battery deployment strategies at the end of straights. There exists this ultra aggressive recharge mode when you'll actually run MGU-K against the ICE to charge up the energy store and this is what's likely happening here on ferrari and mercedes. Red bull with their very low drag is able to pump more juice at top end because they don't use as much mid-straight trying to overcome drag, or they might inherently have more energy recovery capabilities.

In bahrain differences in drag levels were already very apparent, it wasn't just in saudi arabia, even if it went to another level in that race.

Yep, the yellow background is where driver is either <97% throttle or >0% braking, so yes that's correct.
As per the energy recovery due to differences in aero drag, I'm not really convinced it's the case. The Merc had a smaller rear wing compared to Ferrari in Jeddah, and Merc's engine is definitely not that much worse than the others, and yet it shows the same behavior.

Also these are all qualifying laps where there's no need to reach the end of the lap with any battery on board so...



At around 0:34 seconds is the entry to T13, the corner with the most roundedness from Ferrari. If you go frame by frame you'll see that the rev lights from the Ferrari wheel are long gone, and the wheel started turning, when RedBull's are still all turned on, that's not just energy recovery, that's a driver that has lifted early, it takes half a second for the Red Bull to do the same and in a sharper way.

EDIT: judging throttle and brake tracks too strictly in this telemetry is not advisable because they aren't that precise, you need a few points to make a trend, as opposed to measuring a single point, because at 4-5Hz jittery sample rate of this telemetry you get errors that could be all the way up to 0.4-5s differences in when the sample is taken which is an eternity at a corner.

So this is first time I am seeing comparison between these two cars onboard, but is it just me or does RB18 understeer quite a bit compared to Ferrari? Noticable in several corners in S1...

Perez steering lock is almost always bigger and even then, it is understeering

[dialtone]

You're reading too much into the whole thing. Ferrari is disengaging mgu-k at the end of most straights and because they're using relatively higher downforce/drag compared to red bull they start to drop some speed. This is very normal behaviour. It doesn't matter if it's a Q3 lap as there's not nearly enough energy available to pump at full power for the entire lap even with 100% battery. Red bull is so low drag it's not dropping any speed at all when they're turning off mgu-k at speed below 300 km/h, that's why a sharp drop instead of gradual one. What's more significant is the fact they're also not doing that at 330+ km/h with DRS, which is why I think they might have inherently more energy recovery trough mgu-h and on the brakes.

Actually you can even see on leclerc's steering wheel that he is in fact recovering some energy while on full throttle. He goes from 59 to 60% before braking for T13, and then again from 38 to 39% before T22.

I think you make valid points and engine recovery is one of the 2 possibilities for me as well. Well, will see what happens in australia and imola.