2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Russell's performances right now are just unthinkable for someone that Mercedes thinks will be a WDC.

Finishing 41 seconds off the lead vs finishing 13 seconds off the lead is the difference between thinking your car is awful and not.
A lion must kill its prey.

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
6
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 19:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 01:09
Russell's performances right now are just unthinkable for someone that Mercedes thinks will be a WDC.

Finishing 41 seconds off the lead vs finishing 13 seconds off the lead is the difference between thinking your car is awful and not.
Exactly. It's worrying.
He couldn't get the job done on Sainz

Overall, his level of performance could be costly in the WCC in the fight against Ferrari


AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Spoutnik wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 01:16

:lol: :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
6
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 19:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post




Luscion
Luscion
99
Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

So apparently at the end of the race Lewis' tires were 41 laps old, not only did he pull more of a gap on leclerc towards the end of the stint he set the fastest lap on 41 lap old mediums, crazy stuff

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Apparently Russell might have an excuse for some of the deficit...for his sake, it is otherwise troubling.
A lion must kill its prey.

Luscion
Luscion
99
Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:04
Apparently Russell might have an excuse for some of the deficit...for his sake, it is otherwise troubling.
Yea apparently his brakes were overheating so he slowed down to cool them and then could never get the heat back into the tires

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 01:09
Russell's performances right now are just unthinkable for someone that Mercedes thinks will be a WDC.

Finishing 41 seconds off the lead vs finishing 13 seconds off the lead is the difference between thinking your car is awful and not.
I think Russel had his race brain disorganised by the events following his move to Merc. He was doing OK at Williams and looking like the business and probably felt ready to step into a title winning car, but it turned out to not be one.
His drive when Ham was out looked very good and is probably what he expected to inherit so getting a car that needed a different type of drive to what he expected flummoxed him.

Had he moved a year earlier I think he would have adjusted better to this years car, but now seems to think he has to show how good he is at every opportunity and there is no biding his time it is boom or bust every corner of every race and bugger the strategy, kill the tyres and pass stuff to look good. And it does not work (or not in that car)

I think he will come good, but wonder if they are considering a replacement?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Luscion wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:10
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:04
Apparently Russell might have an excuse for some of the deficit...for his sake, it is otherwise troubling.
Yea apparently his brakes were overheating so he slowed down to cool them and then could never get the heat back into the tires
IMO, Georges issue is he doesn't know how to race wheel to wheel. At most he will pull out on the strait to get "some" clean air to cool the brakes, tires and engine. However, that's not enough when your delta is marginal. You need to take different lines, attack only in the areas you are the strongest and think several laps ahead in some cases.

George's wheel to wheel style only works when you have a significant pace advantage over the car in front.
201 105 104 9 9 7

Hammerfist
Hammerfist
0
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 04:18

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 04:40
Luscion wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:10
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:04
Apparently Russell might have an excuse for some of the deficit...for his sake, it is otherwise troubling.
Yea apparently his brakes were overheating so he slowed down to cool them and then could never get the heat back into the tires
IMO, Georges issue is he doesn't know how to race wheel to wheel. At most he will pull out on the strait to get "some" clean air to cool the brakes, tires and engine. However, that's not enough when your delta is marginal. You need to take different lines, attack only in the areas you are the strongest and think several laps ahead in some cases.

George's wheel to wheel style only works when you have a significant pace advantage over the car in front.

One thing I noticed today and also in Singapore is the gap he keeps with the car in front compared to hamilton. Hamilton is able to follow so much more closely and it makes his overtaking so much more efficient in general. Russell just does not follow closely well enough. Some drivers have the ability to see the apex of the corners even with the car ahead blocking their view. Hamilton has that, Russell doesn't. He is starting to look more and more like Bottas although Bottas was not as crash prone with Lewis.

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
6
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 19:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:04
Apparently Russell might have an excuse for some of the deficit...for his sake, it is otherwise troubling.
He had more issue controling the temperature overall. That's why overtaking/following was so difficult for him. That's also why he couldn't get pass Piastri, and Sainz later.

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
6
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 19:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Hammerfist wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 06:18
dans79 wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 04:40
Luscion wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 02:10


Yea apparently his brakes were overheating so he slowed down to cool them and then could never get the heat back into the tires
IMO, Georges issue is he doesn't know how to race wheel to wheel. At most he will pull out on the strait to get "some" clean air to cool the brakes, tires and engine. However, that's not enough when your delta is marginal. You need to take different lines, attack only in the areas you are the strongest and think several laps ahead in some cases.

George's wheel to wheel style only works when you have a significant pace advantage over the car in front.

One thing I noticed today and also in Singapore is the gap he keeps with the car in front compared to hamilton. Hamilton is able to follow so much more closely and it makes his overtaking so much more efficient in general. Russell just does not follow closely well enough. Some drivers have the ability to see the apex of the corners even with the car ahead blocking their view. Hamilton has that, Russell doesn't. He is starting to look more and more like Bottas although Bottas was not as crash prone with Lewis.
I think it's also about temperatures and tyres. In fact Lewis is pretty good at taking different lines when he's following another car, in order to keep more air on the FW. For me, the race where we saw it the most was Brazil 2021. It helps for both

I also remember Lewis let the gap increase between him & Daniel after the first wave of attack failed (probably to cool down the car) and then going back at it. I believe Russell stayed in the DRS zone of Piastri all day long

SuperCNJ
SuperCNJ
2
Joined: 19 Sep 2014, 14:36

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Did George have the same age mediums on as Lewis after the red flag? Just curious to understand how Lewis managed to make his mediums last to the end and have enough life left for a FL yet George seemed to really struggle.

mstar
mstar
0
Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:32

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

SuperCNJ wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 15:26
Did George have the same age mediums on as Lewis after the red flag? Just curious to understand how Lewis managed to make his mediums last to the end and have enough life left for a FL yet George seemed to really struggle.
Yes they had similar age. It was the ones used in Qualy so 1 out lap, fast lap, in lap.

Sphere3758
Sphere3758
0
Joined: 19 Sep 2023, 18:48

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

mstar wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 16:26
SuperCNJ wrote:
30 Oct 2023, 15:26
Did George have the same age mediums on as Lewis after the red flag? Just curious to understand how Lewis managed to make his mediums last to the end and have enough life left for a FL yet George seemed to really struggle.
Yes they had similar age. It was the ones used in Qualy so 1 out lap, fast lap, in lap.
Not according to AMuS:
Hamilton's medium was practically new. He had completed a round in Q1 on Saturday. Russell's medium set already had eight laps on the clock, which he had played in the first training session on Friday.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... xiko-2023/