This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Like someone already noted here, everybody design's there gearbox but nobody builds it. Everyone out sources it. Youtuber driver61 did an video on it.
AM previously used one designed by Mercedes, contrary to eg. Mclaren or other teams. No clue what you are trying to say.
That making your own gearbox isn't a performance difference maker. It isn't hard for a F1 team to do really well.
Good, i cant know what you have inside your mind. Your original message just said that the production is outsourced but everyone designs their own one, which isnt true.
AM designs it for the first time, so it would be useful to have people in place that have experience with designing them, even if the gearboxes inherently wont be that different from team to team.
I didnt say that its a performance differantiator. I was thinking about reliability/integration with the honda pu, but since you brought it up: In 2023 there were reports on the Merc gearbox casing being bulkier than eg. the Redbull one and thus worse for the airflow to the diffuser, so there is definitely some variation. At the beginning of 2022 alfa had issues with their gearbox breaking down too. Its not that straightforward.
Last edited by madridista on 11 Dec 2025, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
Carlos Miquel wrote an article (here, behind a registration wall) where he explains why he thinks that 2026 might be the final year for Fernando in F1.
It's just him reading in between the lines of some things Fernando has said recently, the most notable being that for a segment for Spanish tv where he was asked to "ask a question to 2026" (as in, the year), he said "I'd ask [it] if it's gonna be my final year." Carlos also mentions "some details that he can't make public", which I guess refers to the pregnancy.
He also says that Fernando told some friends in '23 that '24 would be his last season, then obviously changed his mind.
Additionally engine-wise, he said Mercedes are the only ones boasting about having solved their engine reliability issues.
He also posted his podcast, I'll listen to it tomorrow and post the more interesting bits here.
AM previously used one designed by Mercedes, contrary to eg. Mclaren or other teams. No clue what you are trying to say.
That making your own gearbox isn't a performance difference maker. It isn't hard for a F1 team to do really well.
Good, i cant know what you have inside your mind. Your original message just said that the production is outsourced but everyone designs their own one, which isnt true.
With the new Pu overhaul there will be different demands to the gearbox compared to the last era in terms of torque . AM designs it for the first time, so it would be useful to have people in place that have experience with designing them, even if the gearboxes inherently wont be that different from team to team.
I didnt say that its a performance differantiator. I was thinking about reliability/integration with the honda pu, but since you brought it up: In 2023 there were reports on the Merc gearbox casing being bulkier than eg. the Redbull one and thus worse for the airflow to the diffuser, so there is definitely some variation. At the beginning of 2022 alfa had issues with their gearbox breaking down too. Its not that straightforward.
It seems that a general design difference is often apparent in this topic. In that there's, commonly, two component in this discussion, rather than a singular "gearbox" unit.
The gear train being unit of drive in one autonomous construction, with the outer casing/chassis with suspension location, crash structure etc another, and housing the gear unit internally.
Crash damage, that could cause a controlled gearbox change (in limited parts regulations) has been mitigated by separation of these two.
The gear train manufacturing often with companies like this one with the "chassis" component likely to be in house and fully under the auspices of core design team in bringing suspension priority to that structure.
AM previously used one designed by Mercedes, contrary to eg. Mclaren or other teams. No clue what you are trying to say.
That making your own gearbox isn't a performance difference maker. It isn't hard for a F1 team to do really well.
Good, i cant know what you have inside your mind. Your original message just said that the production is outsourced but everyone designs their own one, which isnt true.
AM designs it for the first time, so it would be useful to have people in place that have experience with designing them, even if the gearboxes inherently wont be that different from team to team.
I didnt say that its a performance differantiator. I was thinking about reliability/integration with the honda pu, but since you brought it up: In 2023 there were reports on the Merc gearbox casing being bulkier than eg. the Redbull one and thus worse for the airflow to the diffuser, so there is definitely some variation. At the beginning of 2022 alfa had issues with their gearbox breaking down too. Its not that straightforward.
Actually, my reply was meant for Otromundo, who was concerned about the reliability of the gearbox. I grabbed your reply by mistake, so it was just a miscommunication — sorry about that.
To clarify what I meant: while you're talking about the packaging of the gearbox and how it can affect aero performance, I was referring purely to the gearbox’s performance itself. The gearbox is mainly the cassette — the front part — while the big wheel at the back is the differential. The gearbox casing/packaging acts as the structural support for the rear of the car; it’s bolted to the PU and holds up the rear wheels and suspension. There’s no separate “frame” supporting that part of the car.
There are many ways to rearrange the connection between the cassette and the differential, such as positioning the differential higher or lower relative to the cassette, making the driveshaft longer or shorter, and so on. That’s what I'd call the packaging of the gearbox.
I agree with the first paragraph but I am not sure we'll see podiums next year. I would only consider it a failed season if we don’t improve from this year. Also, we'll fall behind on the PU reliability perspective in 2027 simply cause Honda supplies only 1 team.
with every team building all new cars, and us having the greatest car designer in history, it will be incredibly dissapointing if we cant get a podium haha. its true that newey cant do everything, but he can definitely be guiding everybody in the right direction. the only thing that will keep us from fighting for podiums is a weak power unit, imo.
Look at RBR's history to set your expectations. How many season did it take RBR to start having regular podiums after Newey joined? In both places, the first thing he did was fire 5-10 people the first year. There are things like the factory that are ahead at AMR, Still, the tools are lacking in Newey's opinion. I'm not saying it will not happen. I'm saying I am hopeful but uncertain. More likely expectation for podiums would be for 2027.
yeah i get it man. im just expecting them to be good next year. i think that the fact that its the biggest rules change in the history of the sport works for us more than most anyone else. that puts every team on a level playing field. redbull probably wont be there from the start. im not super confident that mclaren will be there from the start either. theyve been killing it for 2 years, but for the first half of these regs, they were nowhere. merc? could be, but i havent seen them develop a good car for several years. all thats speculation, but i know that every time there are new aero rules, newey is the one that gets them right. i dont think theres a lot in common with his start at redbull.
yeah i get it man. im just expecting them to be good next year. i think that the fact that its the biggest rules change in the history of the sport works for us more than most anyone else. that puts every team on a level playing field. redbull probably wont be there from the start. im not super confident that mclaren will be there from the start either. theyve been killing it for 2 years, but for the first half of these regs, they were nowhere. merc? could be, but i havent seen them develop a good car for several years. all thats speculation, but i know that every time there are new aero rules, newey is the one that gets them right. i dont think theres a lot in common with his start at redbull.
McLaren have had a very consistent trajectory since replacing Seidl with Stella as Team Principal. They started poorly but but it was all expected and shot straight to the front of the grid within 4-5 months with their first major upgrades. And I think they stopped developing the car in 2025 at some point but otherwise have been head and shoulders clear of the field throughout that period. New regs mean new challenge but their technical team would have to fail for me to not trust them to deliver.
I posted the tweet from Honda with the sound of the 2026 engine in the AMR26 thread: https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 2#p1314722 Sounds awesome. I asked Grok on X if it is real or simulated: "The engine sound in Honda's teaser video is real, captured directly from dyno testing of their new 2026 V6 hybrid power unit."
That sound on the downshifts, love it, similar to the Red Bull engine.
yeah i get it man. im just expecting them to be good next year. i think that the fact that its the biggest rules change in the history of the sport works for us more than most anyone else. that puts every team on a level playing field. redbull probably wont be there from the start. im not super confident that mclaren will be there from the start either. theyve been killing it for 2 years, but for the first half of these regs, they were nowhere. merc? could be, but i havent seen them develop a good car for several years. all thats speculation, but i know that every time there are new aero rules, newey is the one that gets them right. i dont think theres a lot in common with his start at redbull.
McLaren have had a very consistent trajectory since replacing Seidl with Stella as Team Principal. They started poorly but but it was all expected and shot straight to the front of the grid within 4-5 months with their first major upgrades. And I think they stopped developing the car in 2025 at some point but otherwise have been head and shoulders clear of the field throughout that period. New regs mean new challenge but their technical team would have to fail for me to not trust them to deliver.
i think mclaren will do pretty good. i hope theyre still ahead of merc. but my point was, aston have a really good chance to be in the top teams under the circumstances. everyone is starting from scratch. theres no point arguing though, we will know soon enough.
Thanks for the videos, Farnborough. They make it much easier to rack my brain over the mysteries of this F1 hobby.
What I'd really like to know—I imagine I'll find out someday, but I'd like it to be now—is why the car behaved so... strangely? ... incomprehensibly? ... and how they failed to develop it positively for two seasons.
With the season over, my conclusions regarding the teams that shared engine are as follows:
The McLarens performed exceptionally well. Once they achieved straight-line speed, they developed rapidly, and if they had wanted to—if they had applied team discipline to the drivers—they would have won more easily. There's another detail, too: for whatever reason, their cooling is better. While they didn't have problems with the heat, their "siblings" were forced to use gills. Apart from this, the differences with its half-siblings were the gearbox with its corresponding cassette for transmission-suspension and the geometry of the front and rear suspensions.
The MBs were the next standout in the family. Prone to cooling issues and lacking the exceptional cornering performance of the McLarens, they still far outperformed their "younger" sibling rivals, AM and Williams. They all shared the same gearbox and probably the same rear suspension geometry. They also had more temperature problems than the McLs.
But besides the car itself, another crucial factor in the results was pit work, both in the pits and during the race. I think several minutes accumulated during tire changes throughout the season, and some decisions—or the lack thereof—added even more time. If you end up losing a lot of time in the pits... even with the best car, you probably wouldn't have won. And that's very important.
Newey's rise to the position of chief wizard of the team seems normal to me on one hand—it's what I would have done if I were Mr. Stroll—and on the other hand, it seems surprising because I can't see Newey attending to sponsors' guests, going to all the FIA meetings, and practicing the usual diplomacy of that position. So I imagine someone else will do those things while he concentrates on the car and the team. Here I see an advantage in Lance's case: he's not a regular driver, he's the owner's son. There's no need to negotiate his contract or look for replacements. This way, he can concentrate better on Fernando, and I hope that between these two geniuses they'll be able to create an outstanding car.
But I'm eager to see Newey in public, at the first race, acting as chief wizard. Perhaps his greatest secret desire has always been "to have his own team"... and since I believe he's bought part of the team's capital... maybe he'll surprise us all with his previously unknown "showman" side. I don't think so, because geniuses tend to be absentminded and somewhat withdrawn, preferring to concentrate on their own ideas. But they're also usually unpredictable, of course.
I'm also really looking forward to seeing the wind tunnel results and how the car performs in the first few races. It would be much easier if the huge investment in technology paid for itself quickly. And I'm also very interested in the results from CoreWeave; if it lives up to the hype, it could be revolutionary.
I think the sound of the Honda engine is fine. But now that I'm older, it sounds more like a motorcycle to me. The first time I heard an F1 car, it was incredible; I understood why they wore headphones in the pits. I was up there, without headphones, and a beautiful Ferrari had just pulled in and stopped right below me. I'd never heard anything so loud. My ears hurt; it was really annoying. But now I look back on it fondly. Rules are rules, but...
By the way, Fernando is going to be a dad. I had a hard time believing it, but it's true. We'll see what happens in 2026. Fernando... you owe us something.
It's 4:54 AM, sorry for the long message. I had a long dinner with my friends and ... well, you know how it is.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
