2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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According to the F1 fans, the Reds has the best chassis on the grid while the Merc’s is only just “okay”. The advantage is only on the PU side. :roll:

vorticism
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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George is consistent and has a reliable car with a great powertrain. Bodes well. The car chassis/aero might be underappreciated. It is a more conventional design, although conventional sidepods have been shown as the most popular choice this time around (Merc, Ferrari, McLaren, Haas, VCARB, Cadillac, Alpine). Even RBR revised their unusual sidepods to something more conventional. The W17 front wing makes the most sense to me--pylons mounted on the center element, single-row FWAS. Structural efficiency. Very small cannon exit in Australia indicates good cooling (McLaren oddly can't match it), simple/conventional louvers (easily adapted) on the actual sidepod and not vertical on the engine cover, taking advantage of the larger louver volume there (similar to Haas').

RBPT engine with multiple faults at the first race won't help their efforts against Merc this year.
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upsidedowntoast
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Ferrari have better speed in basically all corners so I think their aero is a hair above Merc. Right now I'd say Ferrari have a 9/10 engine with 10/10 chassis, whereas Merc has a 10/10 engine (we'll see after June 1st if anything changes) and a 9/10 chassis.

Weirdly fans seem to give more weight to aero than engine even though both are equally important (and ironically, in the immortal words of Enzo Ferrari, "Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines"). I can't help but think that the compression ratio saga is a giant red herring distracting from all the other strong points of Merc's overall package. Unlike in 2014-2015 where a weakening Williams could still get 3rd on the Merc PU inside an otherwise poor chassis, this year all of the Merc customer teams are far behind in ways that can't be explained by deployment alone (though I give Mclaren some forgiveness as they are working with the least wind tunnel time and have always made it clear that they mean to play in-season development game).

I did find the front wing to be the most interesting thing about the W17. Would love to hear later the reasoning behind the middle attachment + only one moving element. Everyone else save Adrian Newey went for two moving elements (yes, everyone's making fun of the Honda engine etc. but the "uncompromising" Newey choosing to sacrifice a second moving element -- I think both teams had their reasons for it beyond just reliability).

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Last edited by AR3-GP on 09 Mar 2026, 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
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avantman
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
09 Mar 2026, 07:47
Everyone is assuming that Ferrari's PU is massively underpowered or missing something, but more downforce means more drag. Drag is penalized heavily in this energy efficiency formula. Teams have to select the correct trade offs.

In 2017-2021, the Mercedes was significantly more efficient with their low rake concept. It meant they could carry less fuel (weight), and won more on the straights than they lost in the corners. Ferrari and Red Bull tended to pursue rake and downforce, at the expense of straight line speed and efficiency. Mercedes practically won all the championships from 2017-2021 with their efficiency.

It was similar in the first half of 2022. Ferrari had more downforce, but Red Bull was more aero efficient. I think efficiency along with good downforce is rewarded more in this hybrid formula.
Red Bull was not more aero efficient than Ferrari in 2022. They were less draggy. Look up their relative pace at Barcelona. That’s your typical aero efficiency track. It was not even close neither over one lap nor on race pace. Of course everything changed after Spa. On some tracks where drag was a bit more important than sheer efficiency which is downforce/drag ratio, Red Bull were closer and could fight. We saw that in Miami and Jeddah. But already at Paul Richard much later in the year, Ferrari was again comfortably faster.
Last edited by avantman on 09 Mar 2026, 10:25, edited 2 times in total.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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sorry, I intended to post that in a different thread.
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Lasssept
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Various things that are interesting
From the information learned during the development of the W17, the Brackley engineers would have had an intuition similar to that of Ferrari regarding the wing in front of the exhaust (FTM), the idea would then have been discarded due to design issues related to the gearbox and the position of the differential.
https://x.com/RosarioGiuliana/status/20 ... 2661555443
In the first practice session for the Australian GP, Russell and Antonelli were nowhere. Seventh and eighth place, more than a second behind.

This had nothing to do with voluntary restraint. Both drivers complained of severe understeer. This sounds banal, but in the new hybrid era it is a double handicap: each problem is punished twice. When the car slides, it loses speed, boost pressure and energy. Correcting everything takes energy.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -wm-kampf/
George Russell on the performance of the new cars: "We're sort of just understeering a lot around these corners. So I'm sure the FIA are going to have to improve that a little bit because it was a bit sketchy."
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upsidedowntoast
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Lasssept wrote:
09 Mar 2026, 15:12
The Toto/Horner beef is even more nourishing to me than the Max/George beef. I know Horner was a terrible person but man I miss him, he would have had plenty to say about the compression ratio saga and all of it would have been entertaining.

genarro
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Its not a Horner/Toto beef. Its more like toto buying himself some political power by being able to use alpine to support his own agenda for mb

upsidedowntoast
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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genarro wrote:
09 Mar 2026, 21:02
Its not a Horner/Toto beef. Its more like toto buying himself some political power by being able to use alpine to support his own agenda for mb
Yeah and if he can screw over Horner in the process all the more power to him.

upsidedowntoast
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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nitrotech wrote:
08 Mar 2026, 08:00
The tiring comments in the past that George cannot manage tyres were so tiring to hear, despite knowing he had an inconsistent car for all those ground effects era. Everytime the car was there to hold up, he has gone on to win, just like today where he had a long stint on hards and was the first one to say, we can do 1 stop. I would like to see Mercedes bringing stronger upgrades and George to dominate the season. It was really tiring to see all the hate towards George, as if other drivers are all saints. I don't have personal affiliation to the drivers, but it's annoying when you see such posts here.
Yeah, I have no idea where the "George can't manage tyres" thing came from, considering some of his most spectacular drives were him being the only one brave enough to pull off a one-stop where no one else could.

Probably because they saw that his tyre deg was worse than his peers on telemetry, never mind that the Merc cars of the ground effect era had a ton of problems, heat and tyre deg being one of them.

avantman
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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The idea came from data analysis . Even last year he occasionally was inferior than his rookie teammate in that area. Jeddah, Vegas, Brazil - just the first what came to ind, there probably were other. In 2024 and 2023 he often looked weaker than Hamilton. Even in Spa 2024 he did not look great at all on tire management against Lewis. His pace dropped off significantly in the end of the first stint where Hamilton was lapping faster. In fact the fact he was so slow and had no chance for decent result (where Lewis was on his way to comfy victory)forced him to try to gamble and switch to 1 stopper, where it was clearly never the plan.

nitrotech
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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avantman wrote:
10 Mar 2026, 09:43
The idea came from data analysis . Even last year he occasionally was inferior than his rookie teammate in that area. Jeddah, Vegas, Brazil - just the first what came to ind, there probably were other. In 2024 and 2023 he often looked weaker than Hamilton. Even in Spa 2024 he did not look great at all on tire management against Lewis. His pace dropped off significantly in the end of the first stint where Hamilton was lapping faster. In fact the fact he was so slow and had no chance for decent result (where Lewis was on his way to comfy victory)forced him to try to gamble and switch to 1 stopper, where it was clearly never the plan.
Can you please share the data? Let's try to dissect by adding context to it and see how it goes. I think that's the objective of this site and would be fun.

f1Follower
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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I was wondering how much did it cost Mercedes team for Kimi Antonelli shunt in FP3?