IndyCar Series

[strad]

Well it doesn't matter anymore since our parental government has removed any choice in the matter.

[Dazed1]

that study was done AFTER they changed the helmets.
New York did an in depth study long before that, after deaths from head injuries did drop only to be passed by broken necks.
After that study the helmet manufacturers altered their designs. It was also after that that they started looking into ways to decrease the weight.

Do you have a link?
I have been riding since '69, ALWAYS wore helmet, never felt like one was heavy enough to break my neck unless the wreck made it inevitable with or without helmet. I have had a few falls.

[roon]

that study was done AFTER they changed the helmets.
New York did an in depth study long before that, after deaths from head injuries did drop only to be passed by broken necks.
After that study the helmet manufacturers altered their designs. It was also after that that they started looking into ways to decrease the weight.

Do you have a link?
I have been riding since '69, ALWAYS wore helmet, never felt like one was heavy enough to break my neck unless the wreck made it inevitable with or without helmet. I have had a few falls.

Studies aside, a helmet weighs 3-4 pounds, a head weighs around 10. Forces on the neck increase 30-40%. Motorcycle incidents often different. Not lashed to a chassis. Anchored torso + free neck + mass increase above neck, will increase forces upon neck.

[zac510]

Formula E is over the top with its graphics, I don't like the feeling of being a video game. I like Indycars approach to Push To Pass vs. F1s DRS. In F1 the DRS makes one car a sitting duck while the Indycar allows (not as bad this year) and if the driver has managed his PTP properly a defense also.

The DRS is just so limited too! Only when you are <1second and only on a small part of the track, which is defined by the FIA and varies each year. When it first came out and they could use it over the entire qualifying lap, there was a bit more strategy to it, but it's since been neutered.

I guess DRS was the best, simple technology to facilitate overtaking at the time but now all cars have turbos and ERS/battery stores, the details of push to pass can easily be managed and policed by the FIA without significant investment from the engine manufacturers. DRS can be reducted.

[Dazed1]

that study was done AFTER they changed the helmets.
New York did an in depth study long before that, after deaths from head injuries did drop only to be passed by broken necks.
After that study the helmet manufacturers altered their designs. It was also after that that they started looking into ways to decrease the weight.

Do you have a link?
I have been riding since '69, ALWAYS wore helmet, never felt like one was heavy enough to break my neck unless the wreck made it inevitable with or without helmet. I have had a few falls.

Studies aside, a helmet weighs 3-4 pounds, a head weighs around 10. Forces on the neck increase 30-40%. Motorcycle incidents often different. Not lashed to a chassis. Anchored torso + free neck + mass increase above neck, will increase forces upon neck.

Forces on the bare head increase by an order of 100 or so, but it is a free country, ride as you will.

[roon]

Do you have a link?
I have been riding since '69, ALWAYS wore helmet, never felt like one was heavy enough to break my neck unless the wreck made it inevitable with or without helmet. I have had a few falls.

Studies aside, a helmet weighs 3-4 pounds, a head weighs around 10. Forces on the neck increase 30-40%. Motorcycle incidents often different. Not lashed to a chassis. Anchored torso + free neck + mass increase above neck, will increase forces upon neck.

Forces on the bare head increase by an order of 100 or so, but it is a free country, ride as you will.

Assuming skull impact. Not commenting on motorcycling, rather helmet use in an enclosed vehicle. Acknowledging helmet mass and shape =/= advocating not wearing a helmet.

[Jolle]

Studies aside, a helmet weighs 3-4 pounds, a head weighs around 10. Forces on the neck increase 30-40%. Motorcycle incidents often different. Not lashed to a chassis. Anchored torso + free neck + mass increase above neck, will increase forces upon neck.

Forces on the bare head increase by an order of 100 or so, but it is a free country, ride as you will.

Assuming skull impact. Not commenting on motorcycling, rather helmet use in an enclosed vehicle. Acknowledging helmet mass and shape =/= advocating not wearing a helmet.

I guess, if you want to prevent neck injuries, you somehow have to limit the motion of the head when you crash. In "the good old days" without any head protection at the sides (the headrest) or to the front (HANS) I can imagine the force to have a neck injury is a lower then without a helmet. But... now we have all the restraints around the head, wearing a helmet allows for much higher forces because the helmet/head is immobilised.

On motorbike accidents most neck injuries happen when you hit your head on something and your body is the dead-weight, not your head. Without a helmet, almost any major accident is quite soon fatal because your skull isn't very well build do deal with curbs, poles and falling on from a bit of distance.

You see this with many safety devices. There is almost an order of injury and solution. Before helmets were common sense, most bikers would die from head injuries, but when they started to wear helmets suddenly broken necks and backs were becoming the main injury. And now with good back protectors and neck protection systems (as used in Dakar for instance), we see most of the major trauma is internal bleedings and broken legs/arms.

[Andres125sx]

that study was done AFTER they changed the helmets.
New York did an in depth study long before that, after deaths from head injuries did drop only to be passed by broken necks.
After that study the helmet manufacturers altered their designs. It was also after that that they started looking into ways to decrease the weight.

Do you have a link?
I have been riding since '69, ALWAYS wore helmet, never felt like one was heavy enough to break my neck unless the wreck made it inevitable with or without helmet. I have had a few falls.

You´ve been lucky, but your luck does not mean that´s not a posibility

In MX neck braces are pretty common, even when I did practice 15 years ago, to prevent neck injuries. And MX helmets are lighter than road ones





But you´re wrong if you think it´s the weight of the helmet what may cause the neck injury, that´s the case in F1, but not in motorcycling where you can crash at any weird position...

[strad]

Do you have a link?

Yeah right from what 30 years ago now?
And it's not a free country. Almost all states now have mandatory helmet laws.
I rode for decades without a helmet and went down a few times, without any major injury.
I'd wear one today both because of the law and because there are so many bad car drivers out there.
I don't know about where you live but here it would take both hands to count the number of red light runners I see in a day. All kinds of other idiot moves as well.

[Dazed1]

Do you have a link?

Yeah right from what 30 years ago now?
And it's not a free country. Almost all states now have mandatory helmet laws.
I rode for decades without a helmet and went down a few times, without any major injury.
I'd wear one today both because of the law and because there are so many bad car drivers out there.
I don't know about where you live but here it would take both hands to count the number of red light runners I see in a day. All kinds of other idiot moves as well.

I am reminded of the anti_helmet activist who, on the morning of California's no helmet law going into effect, dropped his Harley at 15 mph and cracked his skull. Safe travels.

[Jolle]

By the way, someone mentioned the half helmet (or police helmet) somewhere because of neck injuries, that is not the case.
A common injury with full face or jet helmets was that the polycarbonate would cut into your shoulder with a fall on your head severing the nerves to your arm. Plus, your ears are more free so you much easier have a conversation on the side of the road.

[roon]

All of these issues were previously solved by top British engineers years ago. In a just world, the P45 would have already been in series production.

[Maritimer]

Forces on the bare head increase by an order of 100 or so, but it is a free country, ride as you will.

Assuming skull impact. Not commenting on motorcycling, rather helmet use in an enclosed vehicle. Acknowledging helmet mass and shape =/= advocating not wearing a helmet.

I guess, if you want to prevent neck injuries, you somehow have to limit the motion of the head when you crash. In "the good old days" without any head protection at the sides (the headrest) or to the front (HANS) I can imagine the force to have a neck injury is a lower then without a helmet. But... now we have all the restraints around the head, wearing a helmet allows for much higher forces because the helmet/head is immobilised.

On motorbike accidents most neck injuries happen when you hit your head on something and your body is the dead-weight, not your head. Without a helmet, almost any major accident is quite soon fatal because your skull isn't very well build do deal with curbs, poles and falling on from a bit of distance.

You see this with many safety devices. There is almost an order of injury and solution. Before helmets were common sense, most bikers would die from head injuries, but when they started to wear helmets suddenly broken necks and backs were becoming the main injury. And now with good back protectors and neck protection systems (as used in Dakar for instance), we see most of the major trauma is internal bleedings and broken legs/arms.

Immobilizing various body parts just shifts the forces to other areas. Growing up playing football we were discouraged from taping ankles and wrists because in a bad hit you're then likely to blow a knee or elbow because the leading joint has no flexibility. When you have everything external tied down, the only place for energy to go is internal organs.

[djos]

I watched the Road America race today - first US open-wheel road course race I've watched since the demise of CART. Anyhoo it was fantastic and reminded me of the glory days of Champ Car ... they've finally got the series in a good place again (competition wise*) and the cars look decent too (the old school Champ Car charm is back imo).

*It was a proper hard fought, flat out race from start to finish with 2 tires stops and refueling.

[strad]

Was a good race on a great track.