2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[PhillipM]

Exactly, if there was gravel there Max would have been out of the race anyway.

[Phil]

Edit: nvm

[cheeRS]

He was extremnely lucky that the track is build like an airport.

Likewise, Max was lucky for the same reason then, when he completely left the track at turn 4 to complete the overtake on hamilton. Gotcha.

Ding ding ding. Correct answer.

[NathanOlder]

Exactly, if there was gravel there Max would have been out of the race anyway.

Max was fine, he knows where the gravel is at turn 4. He managed to find it about 5 months ago even if it was camouflage.

[cooken]

He was extremnely lucky that the track is build like an airport. He was actually doing mistakes under pressure. He went off track and simply got back on due to the common flaw in modern circuits. I will leave his 29 expeditions over the corner number 4, because race control itself doesnt know what they want and what is a track limit and track itself.

He brilliantly managed to salvage the win, but not as smoothly as some are trying to portrait it. Luck was a big factor.

He did not get lucky at all. He's the most skilled and accomplished driver in F1, perhaps in F1 history - but that is certainly debatable so I won't push it.

I saw a single lockup during the battle with Max at the end that caused him to go wide a bit, but it's not "lucky" that there was no gravel when he went wide. You're thinking about it backwards. When there is no gravel or grass runoff, drivers take more risk because they know they can go wide or brake later/lockup and not end their race in the gravel. Max was doing the same - he admitted almost loosing it out of turn 13.

Hamilton won the race on pure, absolute, fair merit. Just like Max won Abu Dhabi last year and got pole on Saturday. Lewis kept Max behind and managed worn tires better than Max and fully exploited his track position. That's a champion's drive - something Max has never been in a single seater FYI.

Thats your opinion and you have full right to have one. I have my own and in mine he got saved by the track design. Same thing happened in Belgium last year as well. Loosing his car and jet having no consequences because runoffs are tarmacked.

So yes, he was lucky that the track is designed in a way that mistakes like that are more or less unpunished. This is the problem of modern F1, and thats why drivers fail to respect track limits in lots of venues. Like i said, he acomplished a win with his skill, but also with giant amount of luck. If the ztrack would be more unforgiving, he could have ended his race in that corner, in anycase he would lose a big amount of time.

Lewis is currently first and second all time in number of consecutive points finishes. He clearly has learned how to calculate risk fairly well. One does not achieve those things through luck.

[proteus]

He did not get lucky at all. He's the most skilled and accomplished driver in F1, perhaps in F1 history - but that is certainly debatable so I won't push it.

I saw a single lockup during the battle with Max at the end that caused him to go wide a bit, but it's not "lucky" that there was no gravel when he went wide. You're thinking about it backwards. When there is no gravel or grass runoff, drivers take more risk because they know they can go wide or brake later/lockup and not end their race in the gravel. Max was doing the same - he admitted almost loosing it out of turn 13.

Hamilton won the race on pure, absolute, fair merit. Just like Max won Abu Dhabi last year and got pole on Saturday. Lewis kept Max behind and managed worn tires better than Max and fully exploited his track position. That's a champion's drive - something Max has never been in a single seater FYI.

Thats your opinion and you have full right to have one. I have my own and in mine he got saved by the track design. Same thing happened in Belgium last year as well. Loosing his car and jet having no consequences because runoffs are tarmacked.

So yes, he was lucky that the track is designed in a way that mistakes like that are more or less unpunished. This is the problem of modern F1, and thats why drivers fail to respect track limits in lots of venues. Like i said, he acomplished a win with his skill, but also with giant amount of luck. If the ztrack would be more unforgiving, he could have ended his race in that corner, in anycase he would lose a big amount of time.

Likewise if Max had tried that overtake at a less forgiving circuit, he's stuck in a gravel trap or in a wall, ends his race at that corner, and is collecting zero points instead of 18. Driving off the circuit further than Hamilton did had no consequence for him either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Absolutely. Track is track. Thats why none of the drivers have the respect to track limits. 20 years ago you had a very bad day if you drove off. Today its as simple as it gets. You simply get back on, maybe losing few tenths.

[proteus]

He was extremnely lucky that the track is build like an airport.

Likewise, Max was lucky for the same reason then, when he completely left the track at turn 4 to complete the overtake on hamilton. Gotcha.

Ding ding ding. Correct answer.

The problem is that you think i dislike Hamilton and that thats the reason why i banter. I absolutely agree that Max would go off as well and it should be that way. Remember Sainz last year in the wet start? He drove half of the first lap out of track and gained positions and i was seriously pissed about it, even though i am a Mclaren fan.

[proteus]

He did not get lucky at all. He's the most skilled and accomplished driver in F1, perhaps in F1 history - but that is certainly debatable so I won't push it.

I saw a single lockup during the battle with Max at the end that caused him to go wide a bit, but it's not "lucky" that there was no gravel when he went wide. You're thinking about it backwards. When there is no gravel or grass runoff, drivers take more risk because they know they can go wide or brake later/lockup and not end their race in the gravel. Max was doing the same - he admitted almost loosing it out of turn 13.

Hamilton won the race on pure, absolute, fair merit. Just like Max won Abu Dhabi last year and got pole on Saturday. Lewis kept Max behind and managed worn tires better than Max and fully exploited his track position. That's a champion's drive - something Max has never been in a single seater FYI.

Thats your opinion and you have full right to have one. I have my own and in mine he got saved by the track design. Same thing happened in Belgium last year as well. Loosing his car and jet having no consequences because runoffs are tarmacked.

So yes, he was lucky that the track is designed in a way that mistakes like that are more or less unpunished. This is the problem of modern F1, and thats why drivers fail to respect track limits in lots of venues. Like i said, he acomplished a win with his skill, but also with giant amount of luck. If the ztrack would be more unforgiving, he could have ended his race in that corner, in anycase he would lose a big amount of time.

Lewis is currently first and second all time in number of consecutive points finishes. He clearly has learned how to calculate risk fairly well. One does not achieve those things through luck.

You dont want to understand what i said...

[cooken]

Thats your opinion and you have full right to have one. I have my own and in mine he got saved by the track design. Same thing happened in Belgium last year as well. Loosing his car and jet having no consequences because runoffs are tarmacked.

So yes, he was lucky that the track is designed in a way that mistakes like that are more or less unpunished. This is the problem of modern F1, and thats why drivers fail to respect track limits in lots of venues. Like i said, he acomplished a win with his skill, but also with giant amount of luck. If the ztrack would be more unforgiving, he could have ended his race in that corner, in anycase he would lose a big amount of time.

Lewis is currently first and second all time in number of consecutive points finishes. He clearly has learned how to calculate risk fairly well. One does not achieve those things through luck.

You dont want to understand what i said...

No your point is simple enough to understand, I just disagree. My opinion aligns with that of cheeRS, and I'm supplying some facts to back it up. Good drivers will push the limit further and risk mistakes in places with little or no consequences.

[proteus]

Lewis is currently first and second all time in number of consecutive points finishes. He clearly has learned how to calculate risk fairly well. One does not achieve those things through luck.

You dont want to understand what i said...

No your point is simple enough to understand, I just disagree. My opinion aligns with that of cheeRS, and I'm supplying some facts to back it up. Good drivers will push the limit further and risk mistakes in places with little or no consequences.

Since when is failing to corner correctly deemed as great skill? What i saw was that Lewis cracked under the pressure and locked up. If the track would be build to punish mistakes, he would have lost the lead or atleast a fair amount of time. Even Max would go off at some point. But what we have now are tracks that reward mistakemakers without losing too much time. No wonders modern F1 is so predictable in terms of driver and constructor titles.

[El Scorchio]

You dont want to understand what i said...

No your point is simple enough to understand, I just disagree. My opinion aligns with that of cheeRS, and I'm supplying some facts to back it up. Good drivers will push the limit further and risk mistakes in places with little or no consequences.

Since when is failing to corner correctly deemed as great skill? What i saw was that Lewis cracked under the pressure and locked up. If the track would be build to punish mistakes, he would have lost the lead or atleast a fair amount of time. Even Max would go off at some point. But what we have now are tracks that reward mistakemakers without losing too much time. No wonders modern F1 is so predictable in terms of driver and constructor titles.

If you're going to call lock ups in races mistakes, then the whole grid is equally guilty. All drivers make mistakes from time to time. Taking full advantage of allowed track limits is not making a mistake. It's using all the track legally available to you as you see fit. When it was outlawed mid race, he didn't do it any longer. That clearly indicates he wasn't doing it by mistake, otherwise he'd have continued doing it even after being told it was no longer ok. THAT would then be a mistake.

[JPower]

You dont want to understand what i said...

No your point is simple enough to understand, I just disagree. My opinion aligns with that of cheeRS, and I'm supplying some facts to back it up. Good drivers will push the limit further and risk mistakes in places with little or no consequences.

Since when is failing to corner correctly deemed as great skill? What i saw was that Lewis cracked under the pressure and locked up. If the track would be build to punish mistakes, he would have lost the lead or atleast a fair amount of time. Even Max would go off at some point. But what we have now are tracks that reward mistakemakers without losing too much time. No wonders modern F1 is so predictable in terms of driver and constructor titles.

"Cracking under pressure" would've been binning the Mercedes when Max was glued to his bumper, not a lockup on clearly overworn tires.

[cheeRS]

Likewise, Max was lucky for the same reason then, when he completely left the track at turn 4 to complete the overtake on hamilton. Gotcha.

Ding ding ding. Correct answer.

The problem is that you think i dislike Hamilton and that thats the reason why i banter. I absolutely agree that Max would go off as well and it should be that way. Remember Sainz last year in the wet start? He drove half of the first lap out of track and gained positions and i was seriously pissed about it, even though i am a Mclaren fan.

Well, to be fair, when you come to the Merc team thread and postulate that Hamilton essentially lucked into his win, but in the same breath do not mention how Max and everyone else also got lucky, then yes, it appears like you're trolling at best.

Look, making mistakes and not beaching it into the gravel, no matter what driver, is not luck. Just because it happened 20 years ago, it's not lucky today. It's reality, not luck. It would only be luck if the drivers did not know what track they were on or could not see the runoff and then had to gamble whether they were going to push hard or make mistakes.

It would be like saying going full throttle on the straights during the race today is "lucky" because 35 years ago the turbo cars would blow their engines if you did that.

Now, OTOH, at Silverstone last year, one could argue that when Hamilton's tire blew up, it was lucky that it happened later in the race than someone like Bottas or Sainz, where it really impacted their race negatively. No argument there that it was fortunate/lucky.

[ryaan2904]

[ryaan2904]

According to these guys, that new plenum upgrade on the mercs isn't working so well...