Ferrari SF-26

[Tommy Cookers]

One of the side effects of this invention is heating the rear wing. Could they take advantage of that, somehow? thermal expansion and what not?

Dreamland for the rear wing really, it's in a constant flow of air and unlikely to receive any benefit from any kind of heating.

it could benefit from the increased viscosity

[AR3-GP]

Hm interesting point. It could make the wing more flexible, while driving. Outside it could me measured flexing less.
Though I wonder if flexi wings matter much in this new active aero era...?

It will matter. There are circuits with both low and high speed corners. The corner mode will be active in both types of corners. You want high angle of attack in the slow corners, but you won't need so much downforce for the higher speed corners (think like blanchimont, 130R). So there are still some incremental gains to be had with wing flexing.

Shifting the aero balance forward in high speed corners and rearward in low speed corners seems like the opposite of what you'd want. I'd view this as unlikely but I'm an idiot.

The front wing also moves.

[bonjon1979]

One of the side effects of this invention is heating the rear wing. Could they take advantage of that, somehow? thermal expansion and what not?

Dreamland for the rear wing really, it's in a constant flow of air and unlikely to receive any benefit from any kind of heating.

There was that one year that Renault ran heat shielding on their rear wing because they were using exhaust blowing. Ferrari doesn't have any heat shielding so it probably doesn't get very hot. Maybe that's a clue that there's not that much mass flow from these lower power combustion engines.
https://preview.redd.it/1xnxbidblgj01.p ... 865be55d5e

The exhaust was much closer to the wings back then and no turbo either

[AR3-GP]

Wasn't the number 4-5km/h, not 4-5 kW. That's a big difference.

Ah.
That makes more sense.
Assuming a baseline top speed of 330 kph with normal wing, that would mean
Cd (macarena) = 0.9559 x Cd (normal), a drag reduction of 4.4% for the extra 5kph, which sounds realistic.
(higher baseline top speed would mean smaller reduction)

The number reported was kW, not km/h. 4-5 km/h would be huge, but it is not what is rumored to be.

The initial reports said Ferrari found 4-5km/h benefit. It’s posted somewhere earlier in this topic.

[matteosc]

Ah.
That makes more sense.
Assuming a baseline top speed of 330 kph with normal wing, that would mean
Cd (macarena) = 0.9559 x Cd (normal), a drag reduction of 4.4% for the extra 5kph, which sounds realistic.
(higher baseline top speed would mean smaller reduction)

The number reported was kW, not km/h. 4-5 km/h would be huge, but it is not what is rumored to be.

As the crude calculation showed, 4-5 KW is too little gain for inventing a whole new rear wing system. Which could mean, that the aim of the macarena wing is not really drag reduction, but something else like play-room for lower static rear ride height

It has to be seen whether a crude calculation really captures the essence of this solution. Don't get me wrong: that is the best we can do and worth considering, but the reality may be more complex and in the end very different.

[matteosc]

Ah.
That makes more sense.
Assuming a baseline top speed of 330 kph with normal wing, that would mean
Cd (macarena) = 0.9559 x Cd (normal), a drag reduction of 4.4% for the extra 5kph, which sounds realistic.
(higher baseline top speed would mean smaller reduction)

The number reported was kW, not km/h. 4-5 km/h would be huge, but it is not what is rumored to be.

The initial reports said Ferrari found 4-5km/h benefit. It’s posted somewhere earlier in this topic.

OK, I did not see that post, sorry. I just wanted to make sure that my post was not misunderstood.

[atanatizante]

[Nickel]

It will matter. There are circuits with both low and high speed corners. The corner mode will be active in both types of corners. You want high angle of attack in the slow corners, but you won't need so much downforce for the higher speed corners (think like blanchimont, 130R). So there are still some incremental gains to be had with wing flexing.

Shifting the aero balance forward in high speed corners and rearward in low speed corners seems like the opposite of what you'd want. I'd view this as unlikely but I'm an idiot.

The front wing also moves.

But the contention was heating the rear wing to cause flex when loaded.

[venkyhere]

I think we should pause the discussion on 'heating benefits' of the RW mainplane from the deflected-exhaust trick. Mainly because the exhaust deflection is there purely to 'draw' more air from under the car, and by the time the 'hot-exhaust', mixed with the diffuser exit air passes close to the bottom of the RW mainplane, it has 'spread enough' (considerable distance between RW bottom and the exhaust/diffuser) to have not much 'heat transfer' capability. Over and above, the type of carbon fiber that F1 guys use, is pretty robust with heat resistance.

[AR3-GP]

Melbourne (Photos from Albert Fabrega)

[AR3-GP]

@AlbertFabrega

[hollus]

While it is fun to speculate on the exhaust hitting the rear wing, is that even remotely realistic?
What is the mass flow through that exhaust? And what is the mass flow of air (at 100 and at 300 kh/h) that it encounters?
Intuitively I’d say that any thermal effects will have been largely dissipated by the time it gets that high, and that the effective angle of travel of that gas would be below 45 degrees, but I have not run the numbers.
Are we sure it is not more about “sucking” the diffuser? Any upflow there joins the upwards moving airflow behind the car instead of fighting against it.
All wild speculation, shall we start a thread for it if it is run in Melbourne? (which is now confirmed, while I was writing this post).

[sucof]

Melbourne (Photos from Albert Fabrega)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCoVF7SWcAA ... name=large

I remember there being a gap between the plate and the exhaust before... so this is new?

[AR3-GP]

Melbourne (Photos from Albert Fabrega)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCoVF7SWcAA ... name=large

I remember there being a gap between the plate and the exhaust before... so this is new?

I don't think so. It looks the same as picture posted on the 25th of Feb: viewtopic.php?p=1329932#p1329932

[motobaleno]

While it is fun to speculate on the exhaust hitting the rear wing, is that even remotely realistic?
What is the mass flow through that exhaust? And what is the mass flow of air (at 100 and at 300 kh/h) that it encounters?
Intuitively I’d say that any thermal effects will have been largely dissipated by the time it gets that high, and that the effective angle of travel of that gas would be below 45 degrees, but I have not run the numbers.
Are we sure it is not more about “sucking” the diffuser? Any upflow there joins the upwards moving airflow behind the car instead of fighting against it.
All wild speculation, shall we start a thread for it if it is run in Melbourne? (which is now confirmed, while I was writing this post).

I'm pretty sure that it is mainly about sucking the diffuser