McLaren MP4-12C

[747heavy]

After all, we all want to know the max possible lap time.

that should be fairly easy
min possible lap time is maybe more interesting
- just kidding all in good spirit and humor.

[Muulka]

There is nothing wrong with the 12C, it is just not as quick and fun to drive as Ferrari.

If "fun" means hanging the tail out in the corners which is what the journos have been moaning about. And "as quick" applies only to the track. Most reviews say the thing is faster across country than anything else. But then it's a road car.

Those "wealthy" guys over at Ferrarichat.com are pretty disappointed with the 12C, especially after hearing so much of McHype about it. Maybe Mclaren marketing team should take it down a notch so as not to over promised something which they cant deliver.

They talked the car up as being quicker than the competition. Which it was when the competition was the 430. They basically talked the car up too early because Ferrari launched the 458 before they got the -12C out of the door.

I think the problem is that the engineers at McLaren said "the car is faster than X and Y and has these great new systems" and the marketing machine translated that as "it's the best supercar in the world".

As someone who wouldn't dream of taking a £180,000 car on a track and driving it sideways near barriers and other cars, I reckon the track-related moans of journos are irrelevant. If I wanted a great fun car to hoon around a track in I'd buy an Elise or a Caterham. I wouldn't buy a McLaren, a Ferrari or a Lambo for that. I'd bet that the majority of the people who actually buy the car will feel the same.

I'd be more concerned that the suspension system can occasionally get caught out. It still gets great reviews though ("bumps that have the 458 moving around go unnoticed in the McLaren" paraphrases one review I read). Any moans that relate to road ability are an issue and I'd bet that McLaren will work on those and if they develop a fix it'll get offered to existing owners as a free upgrade. One thing McLaren will beat every other car company on will be customer service. Of that there is no doubt.

On their service- they still give complete support to every owner of one of the old F1s. No matter if its 5th hand, they'll look after it. Not that they need to- that thing is bulletproof! Mclaren know how to make a car reliable just as much as they know about making it quick.

[CHT]

There is nothing wrong with the 12C, it is just not as quick and fun to drive as Ferrari.

If "fun" means hanging the tail out in the corners which is what the journos have been moaning about. And "as quick" applies only to the track. Most reviews say the thing is faster across country than anything else. But then it's a road car.

Those "wealthy" guys over at Ferrarichat.com are pretty disappointed with the 12C, especially after hearing so much of McHype about it. Maybe Mclaren marketing team should take it down a notch so as not to over promised something which they cant deliver.

They talked the car up as being quicker than the competition. Which it was when the competition was the 430. They basically talked the car up too early because Ferrari launched the 458 before they got the -12C out of the door.

I think the problem is that the engineers at McLaren said "the car is faster than X and Y and has these great new systems" and the marketing machine translated that as "it's the best supercar in the world".

As someone who wouldn't dream of taking a £180,000 car on a track and driving it sideways near barriers and other cars, I reckon the track-related moans of journos are irrelevant. If I wanted a great fun car to hoon around a track in I'd buy an Elise or a Caterham. I wouldn't buy a McLaren, a Ferrari or a Lambo for that. I'd bet that the majority of the people who actually buy the car will feel the same.

I'd be more concerned that the suspension system can occasionally get caught out. It still gets great reviews though ("bumps that have the 458 moving around go unnoticed in the McLaren" paraphrases one review I read). Any moans that relate to road ability are an issue and I'd bet that McLaren will work on those and if they develop a fix it'll get offered to existing owners as a free upgrade. One thing McLaren will beat every other car company on will be customer service. Of that there is no doubt.

Lets not kid ourselves, 12C is a SUPERCAR and if the 12C is not meant to be faster and better than the Ferrari 458, then there is absolutely no reason to build one unless Mclaren have very good reasons to believe that they can get the world supercar buyers excited with just a badge.

It is inevitable that the world will compare 12C to 458 performance, just like how we always compare BMW M cars vs Audi RS. Sometime M cars are better sometime they are not and it is never the end of the world, so there is no need for any superficial excuses like which car launches first or which journalist is bias etc.

As for 12C being an everyday supercar? Mclaren will first have to pass the real world (not just in UK) reliability and practicality test first before it can establish itself in the same wave length as an Audi R8 or Porsche 911.

[Pierce89]

Come now JAF,

Are you suggesting McLaren made concessions?

What they are saying is their customer base isnt talented enough as that of Ferrari's?
Or have no compromise McLaren(vaunted as the reason for their split with mercedes) in fact compromised?

It's certainy one of the 2, wouldn't you say?

They've made an engineering or marketing decision to design a car without an LSD and with electronic systems that help drivers get around corners without the tail sliding wide at every push of the throttle. They've made a decision that, having developed these systems they don't want them turned off (presumably because to do so is too complicated as the systems are so closely integrated; or perhaps turning them off makes the car undriveable?). The result is that the car needs to be driven in such a way as to maximise these systems in order to extract maximum lap performance from the car. In this regard it is no different to Formula cars that generate significant downforce; you drive them differently to a Touring Car for example. Horse for courses etc.

On the road, these systems will make the car easier for more people to drive faster than some of their competitors' cars might.

That's it really. If that amounts to a compromise either way then so be it. I have no doubt that the car will meet its sales targets and that McLaren will make money from it.

The problem lies in the fact that in virtually every test the 458 sets the faster lap, and it's electronic systems seem to be almost as much hindrance as help. I personally believe, though, that the 458's handling advantage also lies in better chassis tuning, not JUST electronics. I've never driven a 458, but I know that in the 355 and 360, the handling is so easy. Especially the 360, it NEVER tries to understeer, but when it oversteers, it's extremely easy to balance. The way you can drift off a corner(even WITH the electronics on) makes ANYBODY feel like a pro driver. EVEN ME!!!

[Muulka]

THe Top Gear review is on TV this Sunday. Should be interesting!

[munudeges]

The McLaren doesn't have any required style. You drive it with as little drama and steering movement as possible and it will be fast. Their Formula 1 experience has come through to their road car. The car is simply not meant to do powerslides out of corners because that's not the fastest way to get around a corner and it's not how people are going to drive it fast and enjoyably on roads.

I'm very sceptical about McLaren's business plan for this car in an already crowded market, but I just feel this car is getting a lot of unfair criticism from people who are trying to drive it on a track in a way that people will never do so on the road.

[Pierce89]

The McLaren doesn't have any required style. You drive it with as little drama and steering movement as possible and it will be fast. Their Formula 1 experience has come through to their road car. The car is simply not meant to do powerslides out of corners because that's not the fastest way to get around a corner and it's not how people are going to drive it fast and enjoyably on roads.

I'm very sceptical about McLaren's business plan for this car in an already crowded market, but I just feel this car is getting a lot of unfair criticism from people who are trying to drive it on a track in a way that people will never do so on the road.

The problem is that 458 is still faster. Nobody said the mp4-12c wasn't a great car. They've only said it has weird anomalies in the the handling. The testers have all said the the 458 is just the more satisfying drive. Tiff Needell said it just didn't ever give him the confidence to really push it, because it would always try to bite him, and that's from a pro driver.

[sAx]

Second fastest car around the Top Gear test track (1:16.2 as driven by the Stig!), to the Veyron's 1:16.8 and the 458's 1;19.0. Can't believe that it could touch the Veyron in a straight line though!

sAx

[myurr]

Second fastest car around the Top Gear test track (1:16.2 as driven by the Stig!), to the Veyron's 1:16.8 and the 458's 1;19.0. Can't believe that it could touch the Veyron in a straight line though!

sAx

Hate to nit pick but the Enzo was 1:19.0, the 458 was 1:19.1.

Makes you wonder if the original 458 time was done without Ferrari spending all day setting the car up and makes this a fairer fight. Or if the other tests are being manipulated in some sinister manner. I know that Dunsfold isn't the most open of circuits, but the McLaren is faster in a straight line so the 458 should have been more suited to the twisty top gear track if it is genuinely faster than the McLaren.

[Pup]

Which of course just raises more questions, like, where did the 1:14.1 rumor come from and how could the car be a full three seconds faster than the 458 there, but lag behind everywhere else?

Of course, being the skeptic I am, I can guess the answer to both questions.

[Caito]

This stig is damn fast? maybe that's the answer :p

Btw, Vettel tops the board now-

[Jeffsvilleusa]

Set the fastest lap while telling jokes!! =D>

[sAx]

Second fastest car around the Top Gear test track (1:16.2 as driven by the Stig!), to the Veyron's 1:16.8 and the 458's 1;19.0. Can't believe that it could touch the Veyron in a straight line though!

sAx

Hate to nit pick but the Enzo was 1:19.0, the 458 was 1:19.1.

Nit pick away freely, though I doubt we would argue much about a 1\10th, if an Enzo/458 was placed on our front drive.

sAx

[Just_a_fan]

Set the fastest lap while telling jokes!! =D>

In the dry he was only 0.7s faster than Hamilton was in the wet. And Hamilton sang on his lap - good job he didn't do jokes as they get him in trouble usually. And he was as fast in the wet as Button was in the dry.
=D>

[TheRMVR]

Well the Top Gear review wasn't really fair to the Ferrari now was it? First of all the McLaren has been tested there for months. Secondly it was on semi-slick tires from what I've heard, not the original ones the customers get. And lastly the time in the McLaren has been done by the 'new' Stig.

So those 3 seconds are very easily explaned. In the CAR test the McLaren was quite a bit slower dispite being set-up by 3 McLaren mechanics for the track. While the Ferrari was from a private owner.