2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

We'll I'm genuinely shocked at what's going on at the moment. I think it's a bad move for Piastri to burn his bridges with Alpine after all the time and money they have put into him. Has to be Mark doing this and tbh it sounds very much like stabbing his fellow F1 compatriot in the back. I will be very disappointed if McLaren have done some kind of deal behind Ricciardos back after they have said numerous time, just as recently as a couple of weeks ago to Fox Sports that Dan will be driving for them in 2023. It basically makes them look like a bunch of liars and will end up a PR nightmare imo. Dan has a large amount of female fans, as the old saying goes don't underestimate a woman scorned, in this case a legion of them. To mention what if Piastri has the same trouble in this quirky car as Dan has had? This is crazy stuff. Don't even get me started on the Pelosi visit to Taiwan and how China has arced up. Nuts, what the heck is going on at the moment?!

What team principals and team bosses say and what they do don't always match up. We see it constantly that "Driver X has our full support, yada yada..." then by the end of the year they are gone. Or in the case of Red Bull, even after the summer break. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect the team to come out publicly and say that Ricciardo has been a massive disappointment and that they rue the day they signed him or something like that. It's always going to be "full support" until it suddenly isn't. That's just the nature of the sport.

As in football, quite often the "Full support" quote is quickly followed by a sacking.

[djos]

In my opinion, it's simply bad management from Alpine, really bad. How could they let the option expire? Frankly, I think they believed they held all the cards with Piastri. It's all about knowing the worth of your assets and being smart. I remember when McLaren were trying to come to an agreement with Ref Bull for Key, they knew Red Bull were interested in Lando, so there was talk about a loan move. Marko was asked and he said, why would they do a deal for Lando when his option with McLaren was expiring at the end of September that year. McLaren HAD to give Lando a seat, he would have been free to walk and most likely would have. McLaren didn't wait for the option to expire, why would they? If you do, you're telling the driver to sort himself out.

AIUI, some drivers will sign pre-agreements with teams saying that if Contract A expires with Team A, then Team B has first option to sign them.

[runningmanz]

We'll I'm genuinely shocked at what's going on at the moment. I think it's a bad move for Piastri to burn his bridges with Alpine after all the time and money they have put into him. Has to be Mark doing this and tbh it sounds very much like stabbing his fellow F1 compatriot in the back. I will be very disappointed if McLaren have done some kind of deal behind Ricciardos back after they have said numerous time, just as recently as a couple of weeks ago to Fox Sports that Dan will be driving for them in 2023. It basically makes them look like a bunch of liars and will end up a PR nightmare imo. Dan has a large amount of female fans, as the old saying goes don't underestimate a woman scorned, in this case a legion of them. To mention what if Piastri has the same trouble in this quirky car as Dan has had? This is crazy stuff. Don't even get me started on the Pelosi visit to Taiwan and how China has arced up. Nuts, what the heck is going on at the moment?!

What team principals and team bosses say and what they do don't always match up. We see it constantly that "Driver X has our full support, yada yada..." then by the end of the year they are gone. Or in the case of Red Bull, even after the summer break. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect the team to come out publicly and say that Ricciardo has been a massive disappointment and that they rue the day they signed him or something like that. It's always going to be "full support" until it suddenly isn't. That's just the nature of the sport.

Sorry but stuff like this just a few weeks ago is just blatant lying if it turns out they did a deal behind his back and they deserve all the criticism they get.

"“And we’re going to get there. We’re totally committed to it.”"

"“Oh yeah,” he said confirmed when asked if Ricciardo would see out his contract with the team.

“He’s a fighter, and his results since we’ve said that — that’s not how they were intended — have been much closer to Lando, and he beat Lando, so maybe there was something … firing him up.

“We love working with him. He loves the team. We’ve seen when we give him a car that’s capable of winning, he can win in it."

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... 935e37d75e

[SmallSoldier]

Oscar is our reserve driver, will he have had a go in the simulator and know if he can handle the car?

I wouldn’t think that he has driven the simulator as a reserve driver… On the other hand, he may do as well as Lando and Carlos did it in McLaren… Maybe, just maybe is driver and not the car?


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I hope you're not suggesting Daniel has any part to play in his the teams desire to replace him.

I'd imagine reserve drivers would normally get some Sim time, but since he was also a driver for Renault that might have been out of the question.

But then again, that relationship may well have been much closer than we thought.

I wouldn’t dare!

With as close as Piastri seemed to Alpine, I doubt he run the car in the Sim or even had access to it… besides, he was offered by Alpine as reserve driver, but McLaren still has Gutierrez and Vandoorne for that role if needed if I’m not wrong


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[Slahinki]

We'll I'm genuinely shocked at what's going on at the moment. I think it's a bad move for Piastri to burn his bridges with Alpine after all the time and money they have put into him. Has to be Mark doing this and tbh it sounds very much like stabbing his fellow F1 compatriot in the back. I will be very disappointed if McLaren have done some kind of deal behind Ricciardos back after they have said numerous time, just as recently as a couple of weeks ago to Fox Sports that Dan will be driving for them in 2023. It basically makes them look like a bunch of liars and will end up a PR nightmare imo. Dan has a large amount of female fans, as the old saying goes don't underestimate a woman scorned, in this case a legion of them. To mention what if Piastri has the same trouble in this quirky car as Dan has had? This is crazy stuff. Don't even get me started on the Pelosi visit to Taiwan and how China has arced up. Nuts, what the heck is going on at the moment?!

What team principals and team bosses say and what they do don't always match up. We see it constantly that "Driver X has our full support, yada yada..." then by the end of the year they are gone. Or in the case of Red Bull, even after the summer break. I don't think it's realistic at all to expect the team to come out publicly and say that Ricciardo has been a massive disappointment and that they rue the day they signed him or something like that. It's always going to be "full support" until it suddenly isn't. That's just the nature of the sport.

Sorry but stuff like this just a few weeks ago is just blatant lying if it turns out they did a deal behind his back and they deserve all the criticism they get.

"“And we’re going to get there. We’re totally committed to it.”"

"“Oh yeah,” he said confirmed when asked if Ricciardo would see out his contract with the team.

“He’s a fighter, and his results since we’ve said that — that’s not how they were intended — have been much closer to Lando, and he beat Lando, so maybe there was something … firing him up.

“We love working with him. He loves the team. We’ve seen when we give him a car that’s capable of winning, he can win in it."

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... 935e37d75e

It's no different than the Gasly at RB situation, he also had the complete and unwavering support of the team going into the summer vacation and they were determined to help him live up to his potential, but when we returned he was in Toro Rosso again. Unlike Gasly though, Daniel is likely to finish his season with the team. Nothing to be upset or outraged about, it's just the way the sport works. You have to perform to stick around, and so far Daniel mostly hasn't. That's just the way it is.

[mwillems]

I wouldn’t think that he has driven the simulator as a reserve driver… On the other hand, he may do as well as Lando and Carlos did it in McLaren… Maybe, just maybe is driver and not the car?


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I hope you're not suggesting Daniel has any part to play in his the teams desire to replace him.

I'd imagine reserve drivers would normally get some Sim time, but since he was also a driver for Renault that might have been out of the question.

But then again, that relationship may well have been much closer than we thought.

I wouldn’t dare!

With as close as Piastri seemed to Alpine, I doubt he run the car in the Sim or even had access to it… besides, he was offered by Alpine as reserve driver, but McLaren still has Gutierrez and Vandoorne for that role if needed if I’m not wrong


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I think nick de vries and vandoorne, but same point and your probably right.

What about a sim of the car from last year or the year before? I wonder if they had some way of assessing or if they just know the car actually is driveable.

Too many unknowns right now.

[M840TR]

This is most likely going to settle out of court, where I imagine Piastri not wanting to drive for Alpine is going to have a strong sway. I can see a swap with Ricciardo, works for everyone. In that sense, who is technically contracted with whom won't matter. Interesting nonetheless.

[djos]

This is most likely going to settle out of court, where I imagine Piastri not wanting to drive for Alpine is going to have a strong sway. I can see a swap with Ricciardo, works for everyone. In that sense, who is technically contracted with whom won't matter. Interesting nonetheless.

It won't go to court, the FIA have a "Contract Recognition Board" designed to handle this sort of thing.

[SmallSoldier]

I hope you're not suggesting Daniel has any part to play in his the teams desire to replace him.

I'd imagine reserve drivers would normally get some Sim time, but since he was also a driver for Renault that might have been out of the question.

But then again, that relationship may well have been much closer than we thought.

I wouldn’t dare!

With as close as Piastri seemed to Alpine, I doubt he run the car in the Sim or even had access to it… besides, he was offered by Alpine as reserve driver, but McLaren still has Gutierrez and Vandoorne for that role if needed if I’m not wrong


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I think nick de vries and vandoorne, but same point and your probably right.

What about a sim of the car from last year or the year before? I wonder if they had some way of assessing or if they just know the car actually is driveable.

Too many unknowns right now.

You have Oliver as sim driver… And both Lando and Daniel use it to… If Oliver’s lap times are closer to Lando than Daniel’s then you have a reference point… I don’t think the car is that difficult to drive, both Lando and Carlos had great races with the MCL35, which probably is the closest car to the MCL35M… It just needs different inputs to maximize it.

I don’t see it much different than for example Gasly going from Alpha Tauri to Red Bull and struggling as much as he did)… It was just a different handling and Gasly was only given 6 months to adjust to it… I don’t think he was as slow as he appeared to be against Max, he just didn’t had the background of Daniel to try to blame it on the car


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[SmallSoldier]

This is most likely going to settle out of court, where I imagine Piastri not wanting to drive for Alpine is going to have a strong sway. I can see a swap with Ricciardo, works for everyone. In that sense, who is technically contracted with whom won't matter. Interesting nonetheless.

My take is that Daniel will end in Alpine… McLaren will pay a portion of Daniel’s pay check in 2023, while acquiring Piastri (with a way smaller price tag)… And everyone feels they’ve gained something.

Daniel gets to drive a car that might suit him better in an environment where he won’t be questioned as much like in McLaren (the MCL37 will most probably won’t be much different than the MCL36 in terms of handling, at least not a 180 degree change)

McLaren gets to save some money, while acquiring a young and exciting talent in Piastri, hoping to rekindle the magic they had with another young pairing in Carlos and Lando… Piastri for whatever reason unknown to all of us, simply doesn’t want to be part of Alpine, who knows what may have happened behind the scenes


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[djos]

This is most likely going to settle out of court, where I imagine Piastri not wanting to drive for Alpine is going to have a strong sway. I can see a swap with Ricciardo, works for everyone. In that sense, who is technically contracted with whom won't matter. Interesting nonetheless.

My take is that Daniel will end in Alpine… McLaren will pay a portion of Daniel’s pay check in 2023, while acquiring Piastri (with a way smaller price tag)… And everyone feels they’ve gained something.

Daniel gets to drive a car that might suit him better in an environment where he won’t be questioned as much like in McLaren (the MCL37 will most probably won’t be much different than the MCL36 in terms of handling, at least not a 180 degree change)

McLaren gets to save some money, while acquiring a young and exciting talent in Piastri, hoping to rekindle the magic they had with another young pairing in Carlos and Lando… Piastri for whatever reason unknown to all of us, simply doesn’t want to be part of Alpine, who knows what may have happened behind the scenes


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I hate to agree with you on this (cause I'd like to see Dan win more races in Papaya), but Daniel to Alpine and Oscar to McLaren does seem rather likely atm.

[runningmanz]

I wouldn’t dare!

With as close as Piastri seemed to Alpine, I doubt he run the car in the Sim or even had access to it… besides, he was offered by Alpine as reserve driver, but McLaren still has Gutierrez and Vandoorne for that role if needed if I’m not wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think nick de vries and vandoorne, but same point and your probably right.

What about a sim of the car from last year or the year before? I wonder if they had some way of assessing or if they just know the car actually is driveable.

Too many unknowns right now.

You have Oliver as sim driver… And both Lando and Daniel use it to… If Oliver’s lap times are closer to Lando than Daniel’s then you have a reference point… I don’t think the car is that difficult to drive, both Lando and Carlos had great races with the MCL35, which probably is the closest car to the MCL35M… It just needs different inputs to maximize it.

I don’t see it much different than for example Gasly going from Alpha Tauri to Red Bull and struggling as much as he did)… It was just a different handling and Gasly was only given 6 months to adjust to it… I don’t think he was as slow as he appeared to be against Max, he just didn’t had the background of Daniel to try to blame it on the car


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The car is not easy to drive. Lando said it, Carlos said it and we have seen the difficulties Dan has had with the design philosphy. It doesn't gel with his style of braking early, trail braking through the corner and getting on the power early. This style of driving has worked fine for him everywhere bar McLaren. Says alot.

How did Dan go from TR to Red Bull and wipe the floor with Vettel then in 2014? He never had trouble like Gasly did going a similar route. The McLaren is a uniquely quirky car. Its not like Dan hasn't had any good races either despite the trouble he has had, like beating Lando in Spain in 21 winning in Monza and outscoring Lando in the back half of 21. Nor does Gasly have the proven track record of Ricciardo beating many well regarded teammates in various teams including going toe to toe with Verstappen who could end up arguably the best F1 driver ever.

[JPower]

I fail to see why any Ricciardo fan would want him to stay at McLaren given his issues with both cars and performance vs Lando thus far.

Another year like this will hurt more than help. I can't see him having another seat on the grid with a 2022 repeat. Better to find a team that will take a chance on a multi-year deal.

[F1since1980]

I doubt Piastri has any say on when Fernando decides to sign a contract. Fernando left when he pleased (I don't believe he has a personal vendetta against Alpine) and Piastri looked elsewhere as he was contractually able to do. This whole situation reeks of incompetence by Alpine, not deliberate underhand tactics by two unrelated drivers.

Alpine took too long to offer Alonso the kind of contract he wanted, and they pretty much dragged their feet in getting Piastri a drive for 2023. If true about Alpine's option running out on the 31st of July for Piastri ? Tough. If they really wanted to keep him they'd have exercised that option some weeks ago. Though I expect Alpine thought there would be no real options for Piastri.

McLaren will want drivers capable of winning races and championships. Piastri looks like the real deal, much like Lando does. As for Ricciardo ? He just hasn't delivered for McLaren, which might not be entirely his fault.
Besides I don't expect Lando will stick around at McLaren if they are unable to deliver him a car that's capable of challenging for the drivers title. Same thing with Piastri if he joins McLaren.

There isn't any fraud taking place, this is the same old F1 drivers market. Wheeling and dealing between teams, managers and drivers. McLaren can be utterly ruthless in the drivers market when they need to be. If they have signed Piastri then I'd be excited rather than annoyed. Besides Mark Webber is no stranger to the cutthroat side of F1, he'll be the driving force behind Piastri possibly signing for McLaren.

Thank you guys for the counterarguments. My comment was obviously assuming that the speculations that do their round are true. It is not confirmed and only the parties involved know how and what. I agree, it does not have to be the case, but if true, I do not find Piastri representative for McLaren.

Should McLaren just focus on driver quality, taperoo? Maybe so. But what does it say about the McLaren core values and principles if this is what they condone? How will this affect their brand? I am a man of principles and I am willing to fight for my values, even if it means missing out on other things that are important to me. Maybe that’s my problem in this. Success is not as important as having success with some decency attached to it. I cannot separate the driver talent from behaviour.

Well put, I agree with you 100%. Not really fair to Alpine who have spent the money and time on this kid (he has been driving last year's car in tests at Silverstone - was/is going to do 5000K or more I think - not to mention all the simi work, etc...) and Mclaren if they are involved and all of this is true, they just benefited from all that development for free. That is just not right, it is a ruthless business as we have seen in the past, but this is a first in my book from a rookie... Wow

[djos]

I fail to see why any Ricciardo fan would want him to stay at McLaren given his issues with both cars and performance vs Lando thus far.

Despite making a weird car to drive, McLaren are overall a better team than Alpine and dont quit the sport every time the wind changes direction.