2025 McLaren F1 Team

[CjC]

Well, this was the crucial point. Both simply bottled the Q. Being 6 tenth away from a Willi, a Merc and a RB is simply not enough. Being on the level of a rookie in a RB...that is simply not the car and the strategy, Lando was out at the perfect time.

Juan Pablo Montoya said the pole time was set on the driest track conditions.
The polar opposite to when Lando set his laptime.

Montoya is a pitlane pundit now so he was there getting wet by the rain.

You did not watch Q? Everyone except for Lawson did his run for the place in the last attempt (Sainz only improved as far as I remember, but did not advance). Same conditions for everyone.

I did watch the whole quali live unfortunately.
I thought I saw for the last attempt all remaining 8 drivers go out for one last run. Norris was the first one out on the worse (wet, greasy, slippery- what ever you want to call it) track conditions and Max was last. I’ve checked on the timing app and for the majority I’m right. All 8 out, Norris first, Verstappen second to last and Tsunoda was last to set his laptime.

Verstappen said the track would be at its best in that present state for the last man over the line. This is what Montoya was reffering to.

Norris had the worst track condition. Verstappen had the second best and Tsunoda had the best.
Tsunodas lap was the most embarrassing, he had 7 cars infront of him drying the track out for him- Verstappen had 6 drivers.
Lando’s lap was far from fantastic but he should have been around Russell on the grid and considering Lando was on a used and George on a new soft that’d be a good effort. Upon reflection listening to Verstappen and Montoya there is no way we should have expected Lando to get on the front row, let alone pole.

[CjC]

Mclaren's pace was just missing in Baku. Even Tsunoda was pretty much equal to Norris. Was this track specific? Or simply other teams caught up with Mclaren?

Track specific.
Stella has ear marked Vegas to be another weak one.
Vasseur also noted after the race that Red Bull and Merc prefer the cooler weather like in Baku and when it’s hotter the McLaren and Ferrari prefer those weather conditions.

Further to you question:


Short corners and heavy breaking is McLarens weakness

[_cerber1]

It's amazing how easily some McLaren fans succumb to the herd effect. Over the past two years, it's become fashionable to criticize Lando and criticize him with or without reason. As a result of these "truth-seekers," we've already lost PhillipM and other users who could have contributed interesting information to this thread. How easily we forget all the good Lando brought to the team, and what he did for it when the chassis was weak. And all this, just after one poor weekend. It seems some users here only become fans of the team when they win. It's easy to kick a man when he's down.

[mwillems]

Whilst dominant in finishing positions. the MCL39 was always never much further than 1 strong update ahead of the Red Bull, despite a few heavily dominant results - with the Red Bull having a wider performance range than the MCL39, being occasionaly equal or even slightly better or at times not close.

I cant see the Bull being ahead for the remainder of the season.

We know that the MCL39 is better when not in low df configuration and that it struggles with bigger kerbs. There are races where we will be ahead. Two low downforce tracks with kerbs and a ride height considerations are not representative of the 39, other than its weaknesses. Though the drivers clearly messed up this weekend and unlike last time out, have added a little real pressure.

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

[venkyhere]

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

Singapore will show whether the RB21 floor works at higher ride heights and whether they are good over kerbs.
COTA sector1 snake section will show whether the RB21 has lost any of it's high speed corner capability.
if it works well in both cases, it's game on - McL cannot afford a DNF. That's all they need to worry about. Not DNF-ing.
McLaren shouldn't touch the car or 'change' how they go about a weekend. That would be detrimental.

[mwillems]

Despite Singapore being bumpy, the 39 will be a much better car with at least a mid dowforce wing on, though I expect them to take med and med-high options.

[Badger]

Whilst dominant in finishing positions. the MCL39 was always never much further than 1 strong update ahead of the Red Bull, despite a few heavily dominant results - with the Red Bull having a wider performance range than the MCL39, being occasionaly equal or even slightly better or at times not close.

I cant see the Bull being ahead for the remainder of the season.

We know that the MCL39 is better when not in low df configuration and that it struggles with bigger kerbs. There are races where we will be ahead. Two low downforce tracks with kerbs and a ride height considerations are not representative of the 39, other than its weaknesses. Though the drivers clearly messed up this weekend and unlike last time out, have added a little real pressure.

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

Quite the opposite in terms of performance range. Macca has the wide performance range that works on all tracks, RB has the low DF biased performance. They were fastest in Spa, second in Monza behind only Max, and Baku was the drivers stuffing it up so we don’t know for sure. They only look “worse” in low DF because RB21 suddenly works as intended, not because MCL39 is bad.

[mwillems]

Whilst dominant in finishing positions. the MCL39 was always never much further than 1 strong update ahead of the Red Bull, despite a few heavily dominant results - with the Red Bull having a wider performance range than the MCL39, being occasionaly equal or even slightly better or at times not close.

I cant see the Bull being ahead for the remainder of the season.

We know that the MCL39 is better when not in low df configuration and that it struggles with bigger kerbs. There are races where we will be ahead. Two low downforce tracks with kerbs and a ride height considerations are not representative of the 39, other than its weaknesses. Though the drivers clearly messed up this weekend and unlike last time out, have added a little real pressure.

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

Quite the opposite in terms of performance range. Macca has the wide performance range that works on all tracks, RB has the low DF biased performance. They were fastest in Spa, second in Monza behind only Max, and Baku was the drivers stuffing it up so we don’t know for sure. They only look “worse” in low DF because RB21 suddenly works as intended, not because MCL39 is bad.

Range not window.

The macca tends to always be good but the bulls range between good and bad performance is bigger, more variable. Though things may be different now.

[Badger]

Range not window.

The macca tends to always be good but the bulls range between good and bad performance is bigger, more variable. Though things may be different now.

Agreed, just misunderstood your meaning.

[Big Tea]

Much of the problem is a result of the team having both cars caught in their own flag. Lando lost a set of tyres and was on the back foot from then on. Had they, or even one of them, started higher up the grid the DRS train would not have played much of a part.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Much of the problem is a result of the team having both cars caught in their own flag. Lando lost a set of tyres and was on the back foot from then on. Had they, or even one of them, started higher up the grid the DRS train would not have played much of a part.

Agreed. Plus they set the car up before Quali probably expecting to be starting towards the front and did not have the top speed to challenge the RB or RBR even with DRS.

[CjC]

Whilst dominant in finishing positions. the MCL39 was always never much further than 1 strong update ahead of the Red Bull, despite a few heavily dominant results - with the Red Bull having a wider performance range than the MCL39, being occasionaly equal or even slightly better or at times not close.

I cant see the Bull being ahead for the remainder of the season.

We know that the MCL39 is better when not in low df configuration and that it struggles with bigger kerbs. There are races where we will be ahead. Two low downforce tracks with kerbs and a ride height considerations are not representative of the 39, other than its weaknesses. Though the drivers clearly messed up this weekend and unlike last time out, have added a little real pressure.

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

Just totted it up.
Red Bull have declared 13 upgrades on the FIA car presentations submissions sheet since the Belgian GP and they are all performance updates.
McLaren have only declared 6 in the same time frame, 2 of which are performance updates, the rest were circuit specific.
Red Bull have thrown the kitchen sink at this in fear of loosing Verstappen, it could be to the detriment of their 2026 car but we’ll only know that in 6 months time.

McLaren will wait to see how the next few races pan out but surely have a counter punching upgrade themselves, they surely won’t let this huge opportunity pass them by all simply because they didn’t ‘spend’ on a late season upgrade.

I also wouldn’t be surprised after hearing Stella’s Baku debrief that they don’t develop something for Vegas or at least try a different set up which gives them more straight line speed whilst achieving the same laptime.

[CjC]

Juan Pablo Montoya said the pole time was set on the driest track conditions.
The polar opposite to when Lando set his laptime.

Montoya is a pitlane pundit now so he was there getting wet by the rain.

You did not watch Q? Everyone except for Lawson did his run for the place in the last attempt (Sainz only improved as far as I remember, but did not advance). Same conditions for everyone.

I did watch the whole quali live unfortunately.
I thought I saw for the last attempt all remaining 8 drivers go out for one last run. Norris was the first one out on the worse (wet, greasy, slippery- what ever you want to call it) track conditions and Max was last. I’ve checked on the timing app and for the majority I’m right. All 8 out, Norris first, Verstappen second to last and Tsunoda was last to set his laptime.

Verstappen said the track would be at its best in that present state for the last man over the line. This is what Montoya was reffering to.

Norris had the worst track condition. Verstappen had the second best and Tsunoda had the best.
Tsunodas lap was the most embarrassing, he had 7 cars infront of him drying the track out for him- Verstappen had 6 drivers.
Lando’s lap was far from fantastic but he should have been around Russell on the grid and considering Lando was on a used and George on a new soft that’d be a good effort. Upon reflection listening to Verstappen and Montoya there is no way we should have expected Lando to get on the front row, let alone pole.

‘Norris struggled at last weekend’s Azerbaijan Grand Prix, as he only qualified seventh having made the decision to set a Q3 lap before others, who subsequently improved due to track evolution.’

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... /10761914/

[mwillems]

Whilst dominant in finishing positions. the MCL39 was always never much further than 1 strong update ahead of the Red Bull, despite a few heavily dominant results - with the Red Bull having a wider performance range than the MCL39, being occasionaly equal or even slightly better or at times not close.

I cant see the Bull being ahead for the remainder of the season.

We know that the MCL39 is better when not in low df configuration and that it struggles with bigger kerbs. There are races where we will be ahead. Two low downforce tracks with kerbs and a ride height considerations are not representative of the 39, other than its weaknesses. Though the drivers clearly messed up this weekend and unlike last time out, have added a little real pressure.

It'll be interesting to see how we get on at Singapore snd COTA with the bumpiness of the tracks.

Just totted it up.
Red Bull have declared 13 upgrades on the FIA car presentations submissions sheet since the Belgian GP and they are all performance updates.
McLaren have only declared 6 in the same time frame, 2 of which are performance updates, the rest were circuit specific.
Red Bull have thrown the kitchen sink at this in fear of loosing Verstappen, it could be to the detriment of their 2026 car but we’ll only know that in 6 months time.

McLaren will wait to see how the next few races pan out but surely have a counter punching upgrade themselves, they surely won’t let this huge opportunity pass them by all simply because they didn’t ‘spend’ on a late season upgrade.

I also wouldn’t be surprised after hearing Stella’s Baku debrief that they don’t develop something for Vegas or at least try a different set up which gives them more straight line speed whilst achieving the same laptime.

Right, but by and large in time difference between the cars, it was a strong upgrade away.

Mclaren had said they have been upgrading this car under the skin, which was the main focus over the winter.

As i understand it Mclaren are focusing on what they can carry to next year. Both Marshall and Stella have been talking about the hidden magic. None of this is declared.

Even on the surface of the new car it wasn't much different in many places, yet it is .5s to1s faster than last year.

Most of that comes from the platforms ability to run the floor a couple of mm lower and ignoring the situation in Baku, by giving the car strong front and rear traction.

[mwillems]

Aside from Monza and baku having low df configuration which we struggle with and being tracks that will punish you a little if you run stiffer, they also have very long straights, which punishes cars with lower top speed.

And even then we had the pace for the front row.

That's not bad performance for what seem to be two of the worst tracks for us.

Vegas will hurt too.