2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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zoroastar
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Bisonas wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 15:22
collindsilva wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 14:49
KimiRai wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 14:27
Tyre wear could worsen slightly if there is more power from Honda during acceleration in the future. There will be a need for more rear downforce. Rear of the car, diffuser area remains very simple compared to the top teams, lots of detail missing, so there is a lot of potential there.
The AMR is already very draggy
IMO It's impossible to know the actual aerodynamic drag levels at this stage unless you have access to all AMR data aero side and Honda engine side. Only they (the team) really knows what's going on.

Even if someone analyzes gps data and telemetry, if you don't have all the inside data/parameters regarding the Honda engine, i don't think anyone can really determine the actual drag levels.

I am not saying this because i am an engineer or a aerodynamicist, i am saying this as common sense in my own mind.
If i am wrong an engineer or an aerodynamicist should correct me and explain to us how drag levels can be accurately determined without knowing all the data/parameters on the engine side.

Maybe i am wrong, i don't know !!
none of us know. but if you look through this thread its full of experts that say they know for a fact that its draggy, or the gearbox is causing them to be slow, or the rear suspension is the cause of vibrations. every part of the chassis that could ever possibly cause a problem is being used as a scapegoat for their lack of horsepower lol

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zoroastar
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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KimiRai wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 23:38
bigblue wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 23:27
I'm not sure if this will persuade people that engine lead times are long, for all manufacturers, or whether that will upset you even more!

From https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1092945/1 ... -explained
“The lead times on engine development are very long,” Audi boss Mattia Binotto explained at the Japanese Grand Prix.

“We have assessed, I believe, that most of the gap we got to the top teams is from the power unit, which is not unexpected. We knew that would have been the biggest challenge.

“And we have got a plan to recover. But engine development, especially when it comes to some concepts, can take longer. It's not by chance that we have set 2030 as our objective [for competing for world championships].

“Because we know that it will take long. And I think what we need now is to be patient as well. We are very ambitious and we would like to see things solved in a couple of races. But sometimes that's not the case.

“So I think we need to understand exactly where we are as a team, what are the plans. And as well, stick to the plans. Because miracles are not possible.
Also bear in mind both Ferrari and Audi have brought updated engines, and I don't recall a big uptick, at least Aston bagged 9th mostly on merit on the debut of the new engine (and it was reliable - we'll see how that goes over the next few races as well). Whether you believe the engine contributed or not to this change in fortune is up to you.

Finally, Honda are targeting a good step for 2027 as well, again, up to you whether you believe in it, and whether you can wait.

By the way, where's the new gearbox?
Surely they are aware of those lead times as you say. Which is why I doubt this is something actually serious, at worst some pressure for Honda to commit more resources. Plus, Mercedes have lots of customers already and they were even talking about reducing the amount. Honda-AM marriage will continue, it would have to be a disaster in 2027 for it to go wrong.
i tend to agree with you, but who knows with lawrence stroll. if theres a wild card team owner that happens to be under a lot of pressure for performance right now, its him. and newey isnt gonna be doing this forever. stroll is looking at it like, he hit the jackpot, hiring the GOAT, only to be possibly ruined by an engine manufacturer that hasnt delivered YET. i say yet, because i think honda will get there eventually, but it depends on how long he thinks its going to take them. his son is having a horrible time of it too. so just saying, you never know. the more times he recieves an "upgrade" that doesnt seem to deliver, id say the chances get higher.

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Bisonas
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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I don’t think Newey is being very diplomatic at the moment regarding Honda.
I believe that he is either kind of furious or just disappointed with Honda, and is letting others, like Mike Krack, for example, be the diplomats and the motivational talkers, while he is trying to keep his distance from sweet-talking Honda too much. Perhaps he doesn’t want to let them get too comfortable or reassured until they deliver the results he wants to see. In his own way, he is trying to stay firm in his demands from Honda.

It did strike me as a bit odd that, in his post-race message to Alonso over the radio, he only mentioned the people at Silverstone and not those at Sakura, with Alonso also only mentioning the people at Silverstone and not Sakura. In a race where the upgraded Honda engine was so heavily discussed and all eyes were on the Honda engine, it did strike me as a bit odd.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes that he is doing this on purpose, reminding everyone at Sakura that this partnership is results-driven and that nothing is guaranteed, regardless of what the contracts say. Who knows? Maybe there are engine-performance exit clauses in those contracts for AMR.

Now, rumors are emerging that AMR is talking to Mercedes again. IMO, Newey just wants results, and by keeping the pressure on and all eyes on Sakura, he believes he will get those results sooner—or at least get an indication sooner of whether Honda is up to the task and worth their patience.

When AMR decided to bring the B-Spec to Hungary, I was a bit skeptical. We knew that many of the upgraded parts were actually ready a lot sooner, and they could have tried them on the car at earlier races for testing. In my eyes, it was a strategic decision, like the one Newey would make, in order not to reveal anything aero-wise or chassis-wise to the competition, since AMR probably would not have seen any immediate points benefit from them, with Honda having so many problems and limitations. That was my interpretation of their decision not to introduce aero upgrades sooner and bring them all together.

So why bring the B-Spec to the last race before the summer break, giving everyone extra time to examine and study all the aero upgrades just before the break?
The logical answer, of course, is that the Hungaroring ranks as one of the least power-sensitive tracks, which mitigates Honda's power deficit. At the same time, it is a high-downforce track that rewards cornering speed and mechanical grip, so they had a lot of things to test and a lot of data to gather.
So yes, they had a lot of good reasons to bring it to Hungary, but watching the race at Zandvoort and listening to Newey's message to Alonso, another reason that I hadn't thought of occurred to me.

Again, the conspiracy theorist in me thought that maybe Newey also wanted to be 100% sure that everyone would know how much progress had been made on the aero side before the upgraded engine arrived. He wanted to avoid, at all costs, introducing the B-Spec aero in the same race as the upgraded engine because he wanted to avoid any confusion over how much of the progress came from the aero upgrades and how much came from the engine.
He may believed that his aero evolution and the leap forward could ease the pressure on Honda, making them look better than they actually were, with Honda hiding somewhat behind AMR's huge aero evolution.

Think about it. I do believe that even if the updated Honda had been 100% ready to run at Hungary, Newey would have blocked its introduction in the same race that his B-Spec aero was introduced. He wanted to make it clear to everyone that his side—the aero side—is now delivering what is expected of them, while keeping the pressure and most of the blame on Honda.

Sorry for the long post.

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zoroastar
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Bisonas wrote:
26 Aug 2026, 01:33
I don’t think Newey is being very diplomatic at the moment regarding Honda.
I believe that he is either kind of furious or just disappointed with Honda, and is letting others, like Mike Krack, for example, be the diplomats and the motivational talkers, while he is trying to keep his distance from sweet-talking Honda too much. Perhaps he doesn’t want to let them get too comfortable or reassured until they deliver the results he wants to see. In his own way, he is trying to stay firm in his demands from Honda.

It did strike me as a bit odd that, in his post-race message to Alonso over the radio, he only mentioned the people at Silverstone and not those at Sakura, with Alonso also only mentioning the people at Silverstone and not Sakura. In a race where the upgraded Honda engine was so heavily discussed and all eyes were on the Honda engine, it did strike me as a bit odd.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes that he is doing this on purpose, reminding everyone at Sakura that this partnership is results-driven and that nothing is guaranteed, regardless of what the contracts say. Who knows? Maybe there are engine-performance exit clauses in those contracts for AMR.

Now, rumors are emerging that AMR is talking to Mercedes again. IMO, Newey just wants results, and by keeping the pressure on and all eyes on Sakura, he believes he will get those results sooner—or at least get an indication sooner of whether Honda is up to the task and worth their patience.

When AMR decided to bring the B-Spec to Hungary, I was a bit skeptical. We knew that many of the upgraded parts were actually ready a lot sooner, and they could have tried them on the car at earlier races for testing. In my eyes, it was a strategic decision, like the one Newey would make, in order not to reveal anything aero-wise or chassis-wise to the competition, since AMR probably would not have seen any immediate points benefit from them, with Honda having so many problems and limitations. That was my interpretation of their decision.

So why bring the B-Spec to the last race before the summer break, giving everyone extra time to examine and study all the aero upgrades just before the break?
The logical answer, of course, is that the Hungaroring ranks as one of the least power-sensitive tracks, which mitigates Honda's power deficit. At the same time, it is a high-downforce track that rewards cornering speed and mechanical grip, so they had a lot of things to test and a lot of data to gather.
So yes, they had a lot of good reasons to bring it to Hungary, but watching the race at Zandvoort and listening to Newey's message to Alonso, another reason that I hadn't thought of occurred to me.

Again, the conspiracy theorist in me thought that maybe Newey also wanted to be 100% sure that everyone would know how much progress had been made on the aero side before the upgraded engine arrived. He wanted to avoid, at all costs, introducing the B-Spec aero in the same race as the upgraded engine because he wanted to avoid any confusion over how much of the progress came from the aero upgrades and how much came from the engine.
He may believed that his aero evolution and the leap forward could ease the pressure on Honda, making them look better than they actually were, with Honda hiding somewhat behind AMR's huge aero evolution.

Think about it. I do believe that even if the updated Honda had been 100% ready to run at Hungary, Newey would have blocked its introduction in the same race that his B-Spec aero was introduced. He wanted to make it clear to everyone that his side—the aero side—is now delivering what is expected of them, while keeping the pressure and most of the blame on Honda.

Sorry for the long post.
i didnt even realize the whole silverstone and sakura bit. that is true. i think alonso was having a hard time of it during the race, and hes been more diplomatic about it than normal to the press so far, but i can see why he wouldnt feel the love right at the end of the race.

i think the big problem for everyone at aston martin is, they are all on a huge time table. like i said before, newey is 67 and has had some health issues, alonso is 45 and ready to retire. stroll is counting down until he no longer has the closest thing he could ever get to a title challenging guarantee (newey). and honda are on their own time table. thats what bothers me, so i know that it bothers them. when newey made the statement in australia about not recognizing anyone at the factory in sakura, thats what he wanted to point out. because the clock is ticking down for everyone, and honda installed people that were new to f1 to build the engine. it wouldnt have been anything if it came out competitive, but since it didnt, its a problem. 5 years flies by in f1, but in 5 years, aston may have missed their big oppertunity. of course theyll have a chance after newey leaves, but its a much lower probability of success. and who knows what stroll and his son have planned for the future. i know that this whole 2026 hickup derailed a lot of his expectations. he didnt expect it to be like this at all. now its a waiting game to see how long it takes to dig themselves out of it.
Last edited by zoroastar on 26 Aug 2026, 01:58, edited 1 time in total.

KimiRai
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Thank you for the long post.

Hm. Newey does have his ego, remember the whole saga about not getting credit with the Red Bull chassis vs Wache? It wouldn't be beyond him to do a little bit of trickery perhaps.

But, trust relationship needs to be developed. Lets hope Honda and Aston unlock more performance in the coming races.
Last edited by KimiRai on 26 Aug 2026, 03:57, edited 2 times in total.

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zoroastar
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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KimiRai wrote:
26 Aug 2026, 01:55
Thank you for the long post.

Hm. Newey does have his ego, remember the whole saga about not getting credit with the Red Bull chassis vs Wache? It wouldn't be beyond him to do a little bit of trickery perhaps.
well the jury is still out to whether redbull will ever be the same dominant team that they were while they had newey. id say they have the same chance as everyone else now, but well see in time

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diffuser
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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peewon wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 23:32
diffuser wrote:
25 Aug 2026, 11:28


I'm projecting more for next year. They're still too far behind power wise this year We'll see how it plays out when they bring the drivability back. I doudt Mercedes is holding back and losing races.
Yeah end of next year is probably the most optimistic timeline for AM with Honda to compete for race wins. Although, Honda's course correction has taken another setback so who knows. The spread is so big, it feels like they have made huge gains but they are still a long way off.

Its not likely, but Mercedes do have a history of sandbagging to keep the regulations as they are. They have a comfortable lead in both championships and they can wait for a "upgrade" that will open up an advantage again. People in general (fans and drivers especially) are not happy with the regs for the racing they are providing and there is immense pressure to 'fix them'. Its only been a couple of races where they have "lost" (finished second). If they are not in winning contention on pace, you normally here some regulations related 'politicking' in the media from them. Next few races will be interesting to see.
If you tell me they're sandbagging by not bringing upgrades, that I believe.Then again, is that sandbagging or are they just trying to see if they can get by without spending the money to build the updates they have in the windtunnel? I believe the performance you see is all they got based on what parts they bring to the track.

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Jambier
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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The thing is:

- the chassis was crap, they changed it and gained 2 s

- the engine was crap, they had 2 ADUO.
They did one upgrade and for now it is bad in drive ability, bad in vibrations, and it it only 1-2tenths faster

So… I can understand Aston is putting pressure.

Imagine then that the 2027 is same kind of upgrade, like 3 tenth

They will have still 1s in the engine deficit, which will then prevent everything to work, podiums and so on.

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Bisonas
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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For what it's worth, as I also said in an earlier post, I am looking forward to Madrid so we can have a much better assessment of the progress made with the Honda engine.

Leaving out Monza, which will probably be the toughest track for them at this stage, I am really looking forward to the Spanish GP in Madrid in mid-September. The Spanish GP should give us a first "true glimpse" of the overall progress of the upgraded engine development.

It's a very interesting brand new circuit that seems to suit AMR for the most part, with some very fast corners, fast-flowing sections, chicanes, and a few 90-degree corners. It should also be a high-deg and heavily front-limited track which can give AMR more strategic flexibility in the race as we 've seen happening in Zandvoort.
BUT... there is a very interesting "but": it also has a 1 km+ flat-out section/straight from T2 to T5, with cars reaching 340+ km/h, coming right after another, shorter straight.
That circuit will put to the test every aspect of the Honda engine regarding harvesting, clipping, deployment etc.

So, it looks like the perfect track to test many things on both the aero and engine sides.

I believe they will have time until then to refine the setup, refine the engine software and drivability, optimize harvesting and deployment, and it should be the perfect track to actually show us a true first glimpse of the combined progress in power, harvesting, deployment, and drivability of the upgraded Honda engine.

We already know that the B-Spec aero is pretty good and on the right development path, so I am really looking forward to Madrid in order to see if Honda does really mean business!!

I will not judge them based on Monza, because the track characteristics don't really help them at this stage. However, I will judge Honda at Madrid, because the track characteristics and the aero aspect of the car should allow them to apply all their ideas regarding power delivery, harvesting, deployment, and drivability.

If they do well in Madrid, I will personally be very optimistic about what’s coming next in the AMR & Honda partnership.

If Honda fails to show us signs of true progress there, then I will be really disappointed in them.

If I had to guess now what will happen in Madrid, after analyzing the Dutch GP, I have a feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised by AMR’s performance there and that Honda will manage to show signs of true progress on Madrid's straights.

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diffuser
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Jambier wrote:
26 Aug 2026, 11:15
The thing is:

- the chassis was crap, they changed it and gained 2 s

- the engine was crap, they had 2 ADUO.
They did one upgrade and for now it is bad in drive ability, bad in vibrations, and it it only 1-2tenths faster

So… I can understand Aston is putting pressure.

Imagine then that the 2027 is same kind of upgrade, like 3 tenth

They will have still 1s in the engine deficit, which will then prevent everything to work, podiums and so on.
Yes, it would make sense if true. Remember all this is rumour. It implies that AMR F1 know that when Honda adjusts the drivability issues and turn up the wick on the ICE as high as it can go, that AMR F1 will not recognize there was enough of a upgrade/step. AMR F1 obviously want more but considering where Honda is coming from.

Since they have a team in Sakura, they probably have a really good idea of what's being done at Honda. It also means that if the rumour is true, Honda is not getting great reports of progress from Cowell.

aray
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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I think Honda will always play catch up in this engine cycle if it ends in 2029.

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diffuser
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aray wrote:
26 Aug 2026, 17:30
I think Honda will always play catch up in this engine cycle if it ends in 2029.
It isn't as important that they are behind as HOW FAR behind they are and how good the drivability is. Neither of the 2 teams leading the constructors have the best ICE. In fact one of them is in the same ADUO ranking as Honda. Yes I know you're gonna say that the Ferrari ICE is better that Honda. It doesn't matter, it means you can challenge with an inferior PU if you have a better chassis. Honda just has to get us close enough.

TyreSlip
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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I think we will know how impactful ADUO is in helping manufacturers catch up to those ahead when we compare the new engines in 2027.

I guess this could partly explain why Alonso is so hesitant in signing an extended contract. The longer he delays, the more nervous I get.

sn809
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Is the new gearbox in place?

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diffuser
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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TyreSlip wrote:
26 Aug 2026, 20:02
I think we will know how impactful ADUO is in helping manufacturers catch up to those ahead when we compare the new engines in 2027.

I guess this could partly explain why Alonso is so hesitant in signing an extended contract. The longer he delays, the more nervous I get.

Initially I thought RBPT ICE was gonna be frozen next year bu the ycan change stuff...

What can RBPT actually change?

The FIA's Article 3 says that after initial homologation, PU components can only be upgraded where the regulation specifically permits it. For 2027, the permitted components are identified in the Appendix C4 upgrade table.

For the main ICE assembly, the regulation splits it into different groups.

Essentially frozen for 2027
The big structural part of the ICE —
  • crankcase
  • cylinder heads' main structure
  • crankshaft
  • camshaft structure
  • cam drive
  • valves
  • finger followers
  • etc.
— is marked:
2026: yes
2027: no
ADUO: yes

So RBPT cannot simply redesign the crankshaft or basic engine architecture for 2027 under the ordinary upgrade allowance. But if you have the best ICE, what are the odds you got any of these wrong? They can still change for reliability.

Performance-critical combustion hardware IS open. The regulation separately lists:
  • combustion-chamber surfaces
  • pre-chamber details
  • pistons
  • connecting rods
  • camshaft lobe profiles
  • intake/exhaust ports
  • injector-port machining
  • valvegear air-spring subassemblies
and these are marked as permitted for 2027.

RBPT doesn't get to build an entirely new engine, but it can substantially improve the part of the ICE that actually determines combustion efficiency.

It can also change specified intake-air components for 2027, including the trumpets, throttle system and plenum.


So ADUO is similar to wind tunnel, where if you are behind you get more Dyno time and they've added that you can spend more money. Hopefully that's enough to catchup.