2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Seanspeed]

Yeah the Mclaren is clearly flexing more and not by a small amount.

Whether that means it is breaking the rules is another thing entirely.

It's not about whether it's 'breaking the rules' or not. In F1, if you pass the tests, you're legal.

This is about trying to get the FIA to make the tests more stringent to better enforce the 'spirit of the regulations' so your opponents have to change their design, hopefully in a way that hurts their competitiveness. Red Bull are extremely familiar with that game when it comes to flexing wings...

Heck even if it doesn't directly hurt the competitiveness, in this salary cap era you'd still be causing them to spend precious time, resources and opportunity cost to redesign the wing in question, so it's still a win.

[mwillems]

Yeah the Mclaren is clearly flexing more and not by a small amount.

Whether that means it is breaking the rules is another thing entirely.

It's not about whether it's 'breaking the rules' or not. In F1, if you pass the tests, you're legal.

This is about trying to get the FIA to make the tests more stringent to better enforce the 'spirit of the regulations' so your opponents have to change their design, hopefully in a way that hurts their competitiveness. Red Bull are extremely familiar with that game when it comes to flexing wings...

Heck even if it doesn't directly hurt the competitiveness, in this salary cap era you'd still be causing them to spend precious time, resources and opportunity cost to redesign the wing in question, so it's still a win.

If they think you're breaking the rules they will change the tests in a way they know will catch you, and you have to adapt. They'll take all the time they need to see what you are doing and build tests around it.

Totally agree on what Red Bull are trying to do, and their past history. As I said earlier, it's all part of the game when you are at the sharp end.

With Mclaren though the front end is something we've had to work hard to get to work properly.

And given that this is a development war, if we have to go and rework the front wing then that is time and resource lost, so it is important. It'll be interesting to see what it is like on a more normal straight and not the epic road in Montreal.

[organic]

Yeah the Mclaren is clearly flexing more and not by a small amount.

Whether that means it is breaking the rules is another thing entirely.

It's not about whether it's 'breaking the rules' or not. In F1, if you pass the tests, you're legal.

This is about trying to get the FIA to make the tests more stringent to better enforce the 'spirit of the regulations' so your opponents have to change their design, hopefully in a way that hurts their competitiveness. Red Bull are extremely familiar with that game when it comes to flexing wings...

Heck even if it doesn't directly hurt the competitiveness, in this salary cap era you'd still be causing them to spend precious time, resources and opportunity cost to redesign the wing in question, so it's still a win.

Legal yes but in 2021 RB's flexible rear wing passed tests at Barcelona and was outlawed a few races later at the french GP with a technical directive

In 2023 AMR's car became unbalanced all season after having to change their front wing when its flexibility was questioned. They had to bring a different front wing for Barcelona and by Singapore there was a technical directive outlining new rules around fw flex - Td018

If McLaren found a way around td018 then I wouldn't be surprised if they look at it closely, and while yes the car is legal if it passes the checks, precedent on this very issue suggests that legal doesn't mean that it will not become illegal soon

As you say, a win in this area can not only cost other teams money/development time but also affect car balance.

[AR3-GP]

AMUS has been somewhat anti RB, pro Mercedes (German), essentially.

It really doesn't matter what Red Bull have done in their past. When Red Bull was flexing wings, the regulations where "clarified" and new test introduced. Fair game.

If Red Bull wants to flip the script, it is their right, no matter what they have been guilty of in the past. It hurt them before, it can hurt other teams now. If Red Bull's wing were flexing excessively, the rivals would be all over it.

Aston Martin was seriously hurt by this last year after appearing extremely competitive at the start of the year.

[AR3-GP]

I didn't see Organic's post before posting my own.

[BMMR61]

One has to ask the question "what are the FIA trying to achieve when they decide to make a change in how the load test is done?" as there seems to be an inference of that to this latest argument. FIA often appears to reject or agree with these arguments based on whether there seems an "unfair advantage", perceived as helping to 'level the playing field'. In at least one previous instance Red Bull felt (rightly or wrongly) aggrieved by the changes made to the load test, as well as the other teams' public outcry against them. Therefore it's not surprising Red Bull would initiate this conversation for both publicity, tit-for-tat, and remedial/disruption reasons.

On an overall philosophical level, Red Bull have for a couple of years stolen a march on it's competitors with design advantages that weren't always totally clear. Hard to legislate against that. But if flex is observable, then measurable, there's at least the possibility of an FIA reaction, that is, a change. Personally I doubt there will be an FIA change at this stage as it's not one team, and the playing field is getting close to level. Merc's new front wing does appear to be more a flow through to the rest of the aero surfaces concept, rather than what was in 2021 determined as subverting the spirit of the rules. Please correct where you believe I have this wrong.

[AR3-GP]

On an overall philosophical level, Red Bull have for a couple of years stolen a march on it's competitors with design advantages that weren't always totally clear. Hard to legislate against that. But if flex is observable, then measurable, there's at least the possibility of an FIA reaction, that is, a change. Personally I doubt there will be an FIA change at this stage as it's not one team, and the playing field is getting close to level. Merc's new front wing does appear to be more a flow through to the rest of the aero surfaces concept, rather than what was in 2021 determined as subverting the spirit of the rules. Please correct where you believe I have this wrong.

Without wanting to get into conspiracies, it is really only when Mercedes complains that things get done. If Ferrari or Red Bull complain, nothing will get done. Mercedes was a leading actor in the Ferrari PU saga of 2019, Red Bull's rear wings in 2021, Red Bull's pit stops in 2021, and the floor changes for 2022, Aston's wing last year, etc etc.

If it's not an issue for Mercedes, it is not likely to change.

[Mostlyeels]

Yeah the Mclaren is clearly flexing more and not by a small amount.

Whether that means it is breaking the rules is another thing entirely.

It's not about whether it's 'breaking the rules' or not. In F1, if you pass the tests, you're legal.

This is about trying to get the FIA to make the tests more stringent to better enforce the 'spirit of the regulations' so your opponents have to change their design, hopefully in a way that hurts their competitiveness. Red Bull are extremely familiar with that game when it comes to flexing wings...

To be fair, all teams are very good at picking up on their competitor's (potential) rule infractions, and trying to derail them.

[Vanja #66]

Off topic posts have been reported. This is McLaren team thread, not a place to discuss what RB was/is doing with flex wings

[FittingMechanics]

To me McLaren wing seems to flex but not in the "wing part" but mainly in the nose part so the whole wing flexes slightly. So maybe the wing is flexible but not in a way that was expected.

I could be wrong. Video is not really clear and it is hard to sync cars onto the same position on track.

[mwillems]

This could certainly be part of it, it is hard to tell. But I'm sure a lot of videos will be being produced over the next few weeks so all will become clear.

It would be great to get some Pre-Miami footage... Wink wink Chris, if that isn't being too cheeky

Where do you get the footage from, I'd do it myself if I had any idea where to get all the pictures and videos that everyone on here seems to find.

[chrisc90]

This could certainly be part of it, it is hard to tell. But I'm sure a lot of videos will be being produced over the next few weeks so all will become clear.

It would be great to get some Pre-Miami footage... Wink wink Chris, if that isn't being too cheeky

Where do you get the footage from, I'd do it myself if I had any idea where to get all the pictures and videos that everyone on here seems to find.

F1Tv and use the drivers onboards. Sometimes we are graced with front wing camera, but it’s rare. Miami this year? I’ll have a look tonight after work.

I don’t follow the lando/oscar onboards so if anyone else does, let me know if you remember a front wing angle and I’ll go find it.

[mwillems]

This could certainly be part of it, it is hard to tell. But I'm sure a lot of videos will be being produced over the next few weeks so all will become clear.

It would be great to get some Pre-Miami footage... Wink wink Chris, if that isn't being too cheeky

Where do you get the footage from, I'd do it myself if I had any idea where to get all the pictures and videos that everyone on here seems to find.

F1Tv and use the drivers onboards. Sometimes we are graced with front wing camera, but it’s rare. Miami this year? I’ll have a look tonight after work.

I don’t follow the lando/oscar onboards so if anyone else does, let me know if you remember a front wing angle and I’ll go find it.

I don't have F1 TV here in the UK, perhaps I should pay for a VPN and get it

[chrisc90]

This could certainly be part of it, it is hard to tell. But I'm sure a lot of videos will be being produced over the next few weeks so all will become clear.

It would be great to get some Pre-Miami footage... Wink wink Chris, if that isn't being too cheeky

Where do you get the footage from, I'd do it myself if I had any idea where to get all the pictures and videos that everyone on here seems to find.

F1Tv and use the drivers onboards. Sometimes we are graced with front wing camera, but it’s rare. Miami this year? I’ll have a look tonight after work.

I don’t follow the lando/oscar onboards so if anyone else does, let me know if you remember a front wing angle and I’ll go find it.

I don't have F1 TV here in the UK, perhaps I should pay for a VPN and get it

It’s possible. Needs a little more than just a VPN however.


But I’ll pull some videos from other races tonight for you and fire em up

[Farnborough]

There's nothing new in this attitude though, they'll all be "dobbing" each other in to FIA to either get it stopped or, if deamed to be ok then to follow the same path.

Difference between "illegal" and not fitting in with current test, or "undesirable" and needing a change in regulations/ rules wording, being a very fine line in these instances.

Just part of the natural friction that accompanies the push & shove of technical development in F1.