Hamilton goes Vegan!

[Jolle]

I see it now. The 30% is used for meat production, although looking elsewhere it seems this number is actually 26% and not the 30% quoted.
I'm assuming based on your selective responses that the articles don't answer my other questions?

The sludge one you mean? Well, that all starts off as normal corn or soya but is handled differently because it will be mashed up, cut with slaughterhouse waste etc. but when it comes from the land it's not much difference then what you find in the shops.

2 main ones - how much of the 26% used for meat production can be repurposed for something else? The 26% sounds like a really high number, but if it can't be used for other crops then who cares?

The 2nd one was the 'sludge' yeah - what does it consist off, and what would that be used for if it wasn't being fed to animals?

the 26-30% that is now currently used for crops and grass for meat.... well... again in the numbers, we only would need to use not more of a 7th maximal of that (because of the amount of crops it costs to produce one kg of meat) for crops to counterbalance the use of meat. I would be surprised if almost all of the land that now is been used to grow crops for livestock can't sustain crops that is fit for human consumption. but again, we would need a lot less. And biofuel is also a big opportunity.

in fact, i wouldn't be surprised, if we would switch on a all plant based diet, with the efficiency it brings, we could scale up biofuels so much (and we need lot less oil for not transporting cattle, crops to cattle, etc) that we wouldn't be oil dependent.

And the sludge, it is generally a mix of (GMO) soya, corn, slaughterhouse waste (cows eating cows!), grain and other veggies that are bought cheap. It all starts life basically the same as human food but is just handled differently (there is no real "health and safety" for animal food in the extend as for humans). Don't forget, crops for animals are the biggest "client" of crop farms, not human food, many people think or assume it's the other way round.

If you're a meat lover or vegan, or whatever, I think we should all agree the balance is all off.

[ChrisDanger]

Around 7-10 kg of veggies are needed to produce a kg of beef.

Sorry, I'm quoting this because you mentioned it again, and this seemed like the clearer reference. What does this actually mean, practically? Surely a caloric comparison would be more representative, since I imagine the calorie density of meat is significantly higher than most crops. I mean, I realise that meat is not an efficient food source, but I think just comparing weight like that skews the effects.

[Ennis]

the 26-30% that is now currently used for crops and grass for meat.... well... again in the numbers, we only would need to use not more of a 7th maximal of that (because of the amount of crops it costs to produce one kg of meat) for crops to counterbalance the use of meat. I would be surprised if almost all of the land that now is been used to grow crops for livestock can't sustain crops that is fit for human consumption. but again, we would need a lot less. And biofuel is also a big opportunity.

in fact, i wouldn't be surprised, if we would switch on a all plant based diet, with the efficiency it brings, we could scale up biofuels so much (and we need lot less oil for not transporting cattle, crops to cattle, etc) that we wouldn't be oil dependent.

And the sludge, it is generally a mix of (GMO) soya, corn, slaughterhouse waste (cows eating cows!), grain and other veggies that are bought cheap. It all starts life basically the same as human food but is just handled differently (there is no real "health and safety" for animal food in the extend as for humans). Don't forget, crops for animals are the biggest "client" of crop farms, not human food, many people think or assume it's the other way round.

If you're a meat lover or vegan, or whatever, I think we should all agree the balance is all off.

Yeah, the balance is off. Although I'm struggling for the right solution still. I don't think its as simple as using a 7th of it, as the crops used to produce kg of meat doesn't necessarily match up from a human energy requirement standpoint. Also I don't agree that most current land would be suitable for crops, although I have a very narrow view on this (UK-based) and no evidence. Also I guess a lot of those crops wouldn't be fit for humans, or at least not desirable to humans, although in balance if the market changes they'd also change the crops (if we weren't feeding --- to cows, we'd use the land to produce less --- and more good stuff).

I think 'growing' meat seems like the way forward, although I'm not sure of the negatives associated with this either.

I wish there was more unbiased information out there. A documentary that caught people the way What The Health has, but without some of the lies and obvious bias within it. Unfortunately food & nutrition is a fairly dry and boring subject to most, and the only way you capture people's attention is through scandal and extreme viewpoints.

[Fulcrum]

Based on the banter of this thread, I am looking forward to the discussion in the 'Hamilton converts to Islam/Buddhism/Taoism' thread.

[Just_a_fan]

grazing animals eat grass etc because grass etc is the world's most drought-resistant crop
that's why grass etc is the most widespread natural occupant of the planet's surface
grazing potential exists where there is no potential for other crops

Also, grasses grow from the bottom, not the top like most other plants. So being grazed helps grasses to outcompete other plants. A cow is grass's best friend - she eats the opposition and provides nitrogen-rich food (dung) in return.

[Just_a_fan]

One other issue for the assembled to chew on is religious. In India (soon to be the world's most populous country) there are lots of cattle. These cattle are revered by some. They eat and "pollute" but don't get eaten. Should they also be disposed of along with the food cattle?

[Jolle]

One other issue for the assembled to chew on is religious. In India (soon to be the world's most populous country) there are lots of cattle. These cattle are revered by some. They eat and "pollute" but don't get eaten. Should they also be disposed of along with the food cattle?

In the ideal world all livestock lives outside, lives of the grass, etc. etc.

In the real world most livestock lives in mega farms, indoors and what you see outside are the lucky ones and don't really have any impact on the environment or what we actually eat or drink.

the few cows (percentage wise) that are holy in India isn't important. Compare it with the pollution of classic Ferrari's compared to normal road traffic.

[Just_a_fan]

So as long as I only eat the cattle currently grazing the grass field behind my house, that's ok? That's good, because they are tasty and we buy the meat from our local butcher. Steaks are back on the menu. Woohoo!

Seriously, in the UK, much of our beef is grass fed - either in the field in summer or using hay/silage in the winter. Winter will see some additional feedstuff but the bulk is grass-sourced. We don't tend to have the big beef factories feeding exclusively "manufactured" feeds as seen in other parts of the world e.g. USA.

Similarly, sheep are grass fed. Pigs, however, tend to be indoor reared but there is a good availability of outdoor reared pork too.

Sadly, as an island we don't eat a lot of seafood. Much of the stuff caught in UK waters get sent elsewhere. This is daft.

[manchild]

Speaking of nutrition facts, food origin, ethics, health and all trough the prism of logic...

Gary Yourofsky - The Most Important Speech You Will Ever Hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGQDLprA8
*embed might not work on android mobile, so use the link instead*


For those not willing to spend more time to listen to Gary's speech, I suggest the short video from my signature.

[void]

What can I do? I just won't invite Lewis for a barbecue anymore!

[J.A.W.]

Speaking of nutrition facts, food origin, ethics, health and all trough the prism of logic...

Gary Yourofsky - The Most Important Speech You Will Ever Hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGQDLprA8


For those not willing to spend more time to listen to Gary's speech, I suggest the short video from my signature.

Yeah, those selected examples shown are abominably horrific, with those awfully de-humanised workers, but..
..notwithstanding the PETA-type slanted commentary..
..& even if they are extreme outliers (in the 1st world), - they clearly indicate the need for some effective regulatory controls..

Such as these.. promulgated nearly 85 years ago: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaste ... rights.htm

[J.A.W.]

What can I do? I just won't invite Lewis for a barbecue anymore!

There are in fact, a number of vego-items that do go well on the barbie..
..like asparagus, tomato, courgette/zuchini & etc, inc' mushrooms - when suitably seasoned..

( Not really as total substitute for animal-based menu ingredients, but pleasant enough, as a side dish, IMO).

[Pierce89]

Why do so many people feel the need to advocayfor their food choices, and foist them in others?

[J.A.W.]

Why do so many people feel the need to advocayfor their food choices, and foist them in others?

I blame Dr Suess - 'Green Eggs & Ham'..

[ChrisDanger]

Why do so many people feel the need to advocayfor their food choices, and foist them in others?

I read a book that likened diet to politics and religion, which at first sounded strange, but made sense after a bit of thought. So the answer to your question would probably be similar if you substituted one of these terms.