2025 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
vorticism
vorticism
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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At Monaco, Mclaren are using 1 deep louver and 2 short shallow louvers (per side) and a cannon outlet that’s ~2x wider than their usual. Red Bull are using 1 deep louver and 4 tall shallow louvers (per side), a spine outlet, and a cannon outlet that’s ~2x wider their usual.

Image
Photos: Bryn Lennon

Rough comparison of cooling outlet area between the two:

Image
Stills: F1 media

My previous estimate now seems conservative. Here it looks like Mclaren have only 70-80% of the cooling outlet area that Red Bull do. Both use suspension portal outlets of similar size and were not included in the comparison. Not visible in most views, regardless.

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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The Race in their video made a comment about it, Stella apparently said that they are using less cooling because the cooling system is all new for this year (and improved), and that being able to use less cooling is part of the performance gained.

By having less cooling they can put more downforce which then helps with tires, etc.

This is especially beneficial in hot races. More cooling you need, the bigger the benefit for McLaren. Interesting point.

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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vorticism wrote:
24 May 2025, 06:35
At Monaco, Mclaren are using 1 deep louver and 2 short shallow louvers (per side) and a cannon outlet that’s ~2x wider than their usual. Red Bull are using 1 deep louver and 4 tall shallow louvers (per side), a spine outlet, and a cannon outlet that’s ~2x wider their usual.

https://i.postimg.cc/BZkfxVcw/monacocooling.jpg
Photos: Bryn Lennon

Rough comparison of cooling outlet area between the two:

https://i.postimg.cc/k45PcrpL/cannoncompmonaco.jpg
Stills: F1 media

My previous estimate now seems conservative. Here it looks like Mclaren have only 70-80% of the cooling outlet area that Red Bull do. Both use suspension portal outlets of similar size and were not included in the comparison. Not visible in most views, regardless.
McLaren outlet is higher on top and triangular at the bottom, the comparison made here doesn't show that

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vorticism
vorticism
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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FittingMechanics wrote:
24 May 2025, 10:46
The Race in their video made a comment about it...
Which one? I’ve been waiting to see cooling analysis taken up by press and pundits. I think it's a major factor and MCL39's primary differentiation from the RB21. I posted this 10 days ago:

vorticism wrote:
14 May 2025, 19:33

...

The size of the cooling outlets indicates that Mclaren have the highest cooling outflow velocity. Greater velocity allows them to move the same air mass through smaller outlets. It is evindent in some photos that the MCL39 has the most developed internal ducting; that’s the secret there, which is to say, nothing really to do with the radiators themselves nor the power unit or the coolant, all of which are so regulated anyway that I can't expect them to be performance differentiators on their own.

Image

...

Given how well they’ve designed several parts of the car, it stands to reason that they also have very good if not the best brake duct performance--but the brake ducts are only one piece of the puzzle; perhaps their proximity to the tyres is leading to a false association.

More efficient front wing, least disruptive cooling outflow, maybe some wing-flex DRS... In short, the MCL39 probably has the best lift:drag ratio of all the cars. In practice, they could achieve similar downforce levels with less drag, or greater downforce levels without increasing drag, relative to their competitors’ cars. Reducing the drag force reduces the overall stresses endured by the tires, thus providing slightly cooler tires that last slightly longer, and by association offer a broader operating window i.e. the drivers can go more aggressive to get the quick heat-up which the drivers of other teams cannot risk i.e. the operating window has a higher peak transient temp tolerance because they always have a ‘normal’ or ‘preservation’ driving speed that heats the tires less, due to reduced drag forces put through the tires. Mclaren’s tire management may just be a result of the RB39 being the sum of its well-honed parts. Mclaren took the good practices of the RB18 series cars and polished them further.

...

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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vorticism wrote:
24 May 2025, 16:26
FittingMechanics wrote:
24 May 2025, 10:46
The Race in their video made a comment about it...
Which one? I’ve been waiting to see cooling analysis taken up by press and pundits. I think it's a major factor and MCL39's primary differentiation from the RB21. I posted this 10 days ago:


It's not a full analysis, but they mention that Stella explained to them about the cooling and how it is part of the reason McLaren has more pace.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Is there any official wheelbase data from the top 4 teams?
It doesn't turn.

Emag
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SilviuAgo wrote:
27 May 2025, 13:33
MCL39 vs SF-25, aero view in Monaco

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gr5KA3AWoAE ... =4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gr5KA2-W4AA ... =4096x4096

source: unknown
I tried to put them side by side with Photoshop :

Image
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vorticism
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Referencing non Nokia 5110 resolution photos by Mark Sutton I’ll again revise my estimate of the MCL39-RB21 cooling outflow area fraction seen at Monaco. By eye the MCL39 cannon looks about half the size of the RB21 cannon. By pixel count, the MCL39 cannon looks to have ~60% of the area of the RB21 cannon (25k px & 44k px respectively by my measurement). Exhaust pipe diamter is effectively equal on both cars and can be ignored. Photo scale, pixel precision, and some guesswork on the exact shape of the lower side of the cannon create inaccuracy, maybe around +/- 5% here.

The louver pack was counted separately--estimated from separate photos of similar parallax since the louvers are not entirely visible when viewed from the rear coaxial to the longitudinal axis of the car. By eye, the MCL39 has about 1/2-1/3 of the louver exit area as the RB21, and by pixel (~1000 px vs. ~3300 px respectively) it is about 30%. 5-10% margin of error on these estimates.

Suspension portal exits are apparent on both cars (one per side) and seem to be of similar size, amounting to maybe 5% of total cooling outflow area. These are assumed equal for this post.

Area of MCL39 cooling outflow as % of RB21 cooling outflow area at Monaco:
Cannon including spine: 60%
Louver pack: 30%
Suspension portal: 100%

If I can scale the louver & cannon measurements to one another then that will provide the total outflow area discrepancy, but off the cuff it seems like the MCL39 had ~60% of the RB21's total cooling outflow area at Monaco.

Image

The topic of aero correlation/estimation issues at RB earlier this season seems appropriate considering this. Beyond inherent, major packaging differences between the two cars (imo the main cause) and the use of different PUs, incorrect sizing/shaping of the RB20/RB21's ducting could help explain these major differences.