BMW & Williams under investigation!

[zenvision]

Come on, I think Alonso is right on this one. It would be embarrassing for the sport having a 'champion' like this.

[Ray]

Once again, lies, politics, and sore losers are going to influence the outcome of a Formula 1 race result. Ron is a liar, Mclaren are politicking to win, and the Lewis camp are sore losers. Lewis lost the title in China, simple as that. Kimi has outscored him since France I believe.

Get over it and give up. Lewis had no chance of catching Kimi even if the fuel didn't provide an advantage.

I bet none of the F1 world would say squat if Spyker had finished in the points will the fuel being too cold. If you said you would appeal or get pissed, you're lying.

[f1.redbaron]

Come on, I think Alonso is right on this one. It would be embarrassing for the sport having a 'champion' like this.

Absolutely! But that is not the whole story. That is NOT why he said that. He said it because he was selfish, and only thinking about how that would affect him and not the sport.

Hamilton lost the championship. There is no debate about that. He had it in the bag, and let it slip away. So, Kimi rightfully deserves the championship. But Alonso is acting like a baby once again, and only thinking about his f***ing ego.

[m3_lover]

I agree with Alonso on this point, after the event has taken place and the winner is confirmed, Just to win it on a appeal takes away the prestige/award/awe off the championship and will be controversial. He lost plain and simple..get over it and move on, most of the world has. Even Alonso moved on which says something!!!!

[zenvision]

even lewis doesn't want to win it this way, so i think its the final nail on the coffin for this great season
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63598

[axle]

Hamilton too has said he doesn't want to win it this way...So the drivers are happy to accept the current results.

But what are McLaren to do? A rule is broken and it directly affects them, they broke a rule and held their hands up (wet tyres taken away and fine imposed).

A fine and slap on the wrist will at least mean they are applying the laws even handedly.

You can't punish 3 teams for one offence and then ignore 2 other teams breaking the rules...it's double standards and a point of principle.

I don't think for a second that McLaren expect or are demanding that Hamilton be gifted the championship, but they do expect fairness.

[Militia Est Vita]

And besides, bottomline Kimi won the MOST races, period. the guy who wins the most races is and should be the champion.

[checkered]

I did some further

digging about how fuel is handled etc. and interesting details emerged. Small deviations from acceptable figures aren't that uncommon (especially in highly variable conditions) and it is highly likely that such events have been registered at many races during the season, but no action has been taken thus far. Is the FIA to open an investigation to all the races of 2007 while they're at it? That would certainly yield surprising results.

Fuel is handled by the teams in containers that hold 100 kilograms each; such an amount takes a certain amount of time to cool/warm up and we're dealing with a flammable substance prone to evaporation, too. There is a lag when changing the temperature throughout the mass and sometimes there's not enough time to get the figures exactly right. The containers are cooled down to a specific temperature in the morning of the day of intended usage, but I didn't quite get how that figure is determined. With a weather forecast?

Weren't there people here who work/have worked for F1 fuel suppliers? I think so. Hopefully they can corroborate or discredit what I've found and elaborate on what is being discussed here. It'd be a great help, to get to the bottom of this. Everything I've read thus far suggests (well, to me at least), that McLaren's inquiry will get nowhere as far as the results from Brazil are concerned.

[DaveKillens]

Hey, if the Constructor's Championship is decided in a hearing and not on the track, why not the Driver's Championship? It's in McLaren's best interests to pursue having Williams and BMW disciplined, and now all of a sudden, everyone's running around lamenting how this is a crappy way to determine the champion? Maybe some posters in here should look to past posts, especially concerning the hearing and decision process that DQ'd McLaren from the constructor's. If you favored that outcome, then you ought to really be consistent about what process is appropriate or not.

[flynfrog]

Hey, if the Constructor's Championship is decided in a hearing and not on the track, why not the Driver's Championship? It's in McLaren's best interests to pursue having Williams and BMW disciplined, and now all of a sudden, everyone's running around lamenting how this is a crappy way to determine the champion? Maybe some posters in here should look to past posts, especially concerning the hearing and decision process that DQ'd McLaren from the constructor's. If you favored that outcome, then you ought to really be consistent about what process is appropriate or not.

By that logic if BMW and willams drivers are penalized shouldn't both of the Mclaren Drivers be DQ the ruling was that it was not the drivers fault for what the teams did

[mini696]

Rules are rules... If you break them you get punished, whether it be in the first or last race of the season, whether you gained an advantage or not. If a rule is broken then penalties should apply.

[flynfrog]

Rules are rules... If you break them you get punished, whether it be in the first or last race of the season, whether you gained an advantage or not. If a rule is broken then penalties should apply.

I agree

but by the logic that the Mclearan drivers got to keep there driver points and drivers were not penalized for the tire mishap ect the bmw drivers should keep there driver points no?

[mini696]

Rules are rules... If you break them you get punished, whether it be in the first or last race of the season, whether you gained an advantage or not. If a rule is broken then penalties should apply.

I agree

but by the logic that the Mclearan drivers got to keep there driver points and drivers were not penalized for the tire mishap ect the bmw drivers should keep there driver points no?

Not really by that logic, the McLaren drivers were given immunity by the FIA if they brought forward information, so its a slightly different situation (but I believe since Alonso knew about the information being passed to McLaren and Ferrari, he -at least- should have lost points), apart from that it was a constructors cheating issue, so the constructors lose their points.

For the BMW cheating (read rule breaking) again it is a constructors issue, so I would like to see only the constructors lose points/money.

[flynfrog]

Rules are rules... If you break them you get punished, whether it be in the first or last race of the season, whether you gained an advantage or not. If a rule is broken then penalties should apply.

I agree

but by the logic that the Mclearan drivers got to keep there driver points and drivers were not penalized for the tire mishap ect the bmw drivers should keep there driver points no?

Not really by that logic, the McLaren drivers were given immunity by the FIA if they brought forward information, so its a slightly different situation (but I believe since Alonso knew about the information being passed to McLaren and Ferrari, he -at least- should have lost points), apart from that it was a constructors cheating issue, so the constructors lose their points.

For the BMW cheating (read rule breaking) again it is a constructors issue, so I would like to see only the constructors lose points/money.

isnt that what i said

[mini696]

I agree

but by the logic that the Mclearan drivers got to keep there driver points and drivers were not penalized for the tire mishap ect the bmw drivers should keep there driver points no?

Not really by that logic, the McLaren drivers were given immunity by the FIA if they brought forward information, so its a slightly different situation (but I believe since Alonso knew about the information being passed to McLaren and Ferrari, he -at least- should have lost points), apart from that it was a constructors cheating issue, so the constructors lose their points.

For the BMW cheating (read rule breaking) again it is a constructors issue, so I would like to see only the constructors lose points/money.

isnt that what i said

Yeah, sorry, I misread your post.

As a side note - in McLarens defence with the tyres, the rule specifically states "Wet" tyres, McLaren used two sets of "Extreme Wets".