FIA and FOTA reach agreement, no parallel series

[WhiteBlue]

Braking energy is pure mechanical energy which is the most valuable and not chemically stored energy which must always be converted to be used in a race car.

And the braking energy does not need to be converted? If you design a motor that does not convert energy at all, you will be pretty rich I think.

Good point in fact! But we are not talking about a thermodynamical process for conversion of chemical energy to mechanical energy. We are talking about a more efficent mechanical to electrical energy cycle. That means we are in the realm of electro mechanical conversions which tend to be three times more efficient.

And there is another aspect. The weight of the KERS machinery can be taken out of the ballast if there were agreement to use a more fuel efficient technology. Pretty much all cars had 30-40 kg of ballast. If KERS was mandatory there was never an issue of any team being disadvantaged.

I do not see absolute performance as a crucial issue as long as F1 is the pinnacle of road racing open wheel performance. If loosing performance from ballst ever was an issue you could easily solve this by allowing 500 rpm more and equalizing that performnace loss while at the same time creating interest in reliability stakes.

[Giblet]

I assume that the increased weight to help the Kubicas and Wurz's of the world (taller drivers) will be included in the 2010 regs, or Kubica is going to be mighty peeved. He got basically shafted this year because he is tall. The BMW's early season performance doesn't help obviously.

[WhiteBlue]

Yeah, that was agreed prior to the stramash. So one can expect that it stands.

[ISLAMATRON]

HAHA!!!!! Ferrari sold them all out again, just as I said!!!!! Luca stayed up all night and politicked with MAx & BE and probly got a sweeter deal for Ferrari, all at FOTA's expense... --- FOTA probly even paid the Hotel & room service bill!!!!!(and probly the hookers too)

According to sources, Mosley, F1 rights holder Bernie Ecclestone and Formula One Teams' Association [FOTA] chairman Luca di Montezemolo held a series of meetings overnight and into this morning, prior to today's World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris, aimed at resolving the crisis.

Just as I said, Ferrari does not give a flying --- about F1, its "DNA", technical innovation, F1 fans, or the other teams(especially the small ones), all Luca gives a damn about is that he(Ferrari) has the financial advantage at the moment and he will not relinquish it. HE is no less power hungry than MAx, and he fooled all of you, having you hold him up as the leader of the "good guys."

Continuing the current(1998) Concorde agreement does nothing but keep giving Ferrari more money than the other teams and even more when they win the WCC. On top of that they still hold their veto power and can continue to dominate the other teams with their exquisite multi million dollar wheel nuts, and repress any innovative technology like KERS or HERS.

Next year, without KERS, all I will be stuck with is listening to a bunch of aero nerds creaming their pants over the new winglet on the sidepod of the Brawn... thanks alot FOTA... or should I say Ferrari.

[jamsbong]

I think this is good. Not as good as a split but much better than before. The continuous rule changes imposed by Max was not really useful. He wanted KERS, he got that and end up forcing teams to spend countless amount of money which is useless in terms of getting points so they need to spend more to make it a potential investment.

Then Max contradict his direction by saying suddenly, you can't spend money anymore so stop making your car better. It is just a nightmare.

Now that he is stepping down. There will be peace in F1 and we can watch F1 with no political rubbish for a while (not sure for how long).

For those who believe Ferrari will win simply because they have more money, then you could not be MORE wrong. Toyota is the heaviest spender and yet they were never on top. Honda spend about the same as most top teams and they never gotten anywhere. Ferrari do spend a lot but they are not the heaviest spenders. Red bull have lesser budgets than all of the top teams and yet they are doing well now.

sure you do need a descend amount to start with but all teams should know that before they even apply for a spot. Brawn is a great example of clever economical management which got them the flawless start to the season. Money is not everything, but clever minds... thats priceless.

I look forward to more F1 racing this year and onwards.

[Michiba]

this is all a bit of a fizzer.

I'm starting to think that F1 has taken the idea from pro wrestling to generate conflict as part of the entertainment. We've all been had I tells ya

[Giblet]

If it's a clown show next year, or later on, FOTA can still split, and take some new already established teams with them. If all the teams are now signing up with the same rules, there shouldn't be any reason they can't just align with FOTA, and they could all split at a later date, especially now that they have their feet wet and understand that an alternative championship is a reality.

The teams now have some power in the sport, and whoever will replace Max knows there is a large job to be undertaken, and the teams have already started it.

Emotionally I wanted the split, but this might be a good compromise down the road.

Again like Kimi "I thing so, we will just have to wait and see."

[ISLAMATRON]

Honda and Toyota have spent alot of money yes, but in an attempt to catch up to investments already made by big timers McLaren & Ferrari.

The continuous rules changes did not come from Max, it came from the teams... V8's, OWG, refuel ban, increased weight, 90% of rules changes over these years have come from the teams, and if they werent then Why didnt Ferrari depose them with their almighty VETO?

Red Bull is spending 200 mil euros this year, and that is without paying KIMI $50 plus mil, does that seem like a small amount? by comparison STR is spending about half that.

jamsbong, your posts are very much uninformed, I would suggest getting your F1 news from several sources rather then just the Ferrari or FOTA websites, or whatever biased, incomplete source from which you derive your info.

If KERS is allowed to remain, you will see alot more tems using it next year because of the resizing of the front tires(smaller) shifting the desired weight balance rearward... it will be even moreso a factor if the proposed weight increase (620kg) goes thru.

82 hp, 25 kg KERS is no more waste of money than $2000 one time use wheel nuts, or hours of CFD & wind tunnel time developing a minute winglet to hold a mirror.

[jamsbong]

82 hp, 25 kg KERS is no more waste of money than $2000 one time use wheel nuts, or hours of CFD & wind tunnel time developing a minute winglet to hold a mirror.

There is a big difference. KERS have not yield points but the CFD and windtunnel have. Do you even know how CFD or aero work?

Red Bull and Brawn are leading the championship and they are not the top spenders. So it goes to show that clever minds remain mightier than brute cash.

From where do you get your evidence to claim that I'm wrong or misinformed? ISLAMATRON, I would prefer a positive discussion out of this forum, rather than such pointless debate with finger pointing attitude. We all love F1, but what you're doing ain't helping.

[flynfrog]

HAHA!!!!! Ferrari sold them all out again, just as I said!!!!! Luca stayed up all night and politicked with MAx & BE and probly got a sweeter deal for Ferrari, all at FOTA's expense... --- FOTA probly even paid the Hotel & room service bill!!!!!(and probly the hookers too)

According to sources, Mosley, F1 rights holder Bernie Ecclestone and Formula One Teams' Association [FOTA] chairman Luca di Montezemolo held a series of meetings overnight and into this morning, prior to today's World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris, aimed at resolving the crisis.

Just as I said, Ferrari does not give a flying --- about F1, its "DNA", technical innovation, F1 fans, or the other teams(especially the small ones), all Luca gives a damn about is that he(Ferrari) has the financial advantage at the moment and he will not relinquish it. HE is no less power hungry than MAx, and he fooled all of you, having you hold him up as the leader of the "good guys."

Continuing the current(1998) Concorde agreement does nothing but keep giving Ferrari more money than the other teams and even more when they win the WCC. On top of that they still hold their veto power and can continue to dominate the other teams with their exquisite multi million dollar wheel nuts, and repress any innovative technology like KERS or HERS.

Next year, without KERS, all I will be stuck with is listening to a bunch of aero nerds creaming their pants over the new winglet on the sidepod of the Brawn... thanks alot FOTA... or should I say Ferrari.

we get it you dont like Ferrari but this is a pretty big stretch. I dont see what is so exciting about KERS. Its an electic motor and a battery pack. The teams are not going to develop battery chemistry they are going to use off the shelf parts. Big woop. Even I have worked with KERS systems on solar cars they are not exactly that interesting. I would much rather see open engine regs look at WSBK V4s Twins I4s big bang I4s some verity. I am pretty sure out of this entire forum there are three people who give a crap about KERS. at least we can see the wings and hear the motors.

[jamsbong]

Well said, flynfrog

I personally would rather see aero innovation because they are more complex and have more potential improvement over any other area. Personally, I prefer Engine not to be rev limited, it sux to confine the racing engine i think.

[DaveKillens]

jamsbong, your posts are very much uninformed, I would suggest getting your F1 news from several sources rather then just the Ferrari or FOTA websites, or whatever biased, incomplete source from which you derive your info.

I could not disagree more. Jamsbong, I welcome your opinion. That is how we grow and learn, by listening to others, regardless if we agree or not. Just because an individual decides to launch a personal attack because they disagree, please do not be discouraged. For every person with a closed mind, you will find five who who will respectfully listen.

[Giblet]

They should allow the KERS to be used still, if a team wants to. Since the package is already done, allow teams that have developed it to use it, or want it to buy it.

And 82 hp is nothing for 6 seconds, but what about for 20? Allow teams to play a little, and as battery tech gets better, the power density goes up and more can be extracted from the same package. This also allows for some "rule tweaking" of the cars if need be in case a major breakthrough sends numbers skyrocketing. Like an F1 restrictor plate, or blow-off valves. Better then grooved tires FFS.

I think another change should be a shift in the way sponsors look at F1. Let's say you're a company like Siemens, and you decide to sponsor a team through your technical ability. Take on the challenge of producing a KERS or any such new system from within the company, and supply it to the team. This will give Siemens new ability, and the device can be be used to benefit the team as well.

The team benefits much more as they have time freed up to do other work on the car itself. Instead of just giving money, giving time and physical and intellectual property is the way to go I think. The teams need the job and work flow to be smoother and simpler, and more concentrated, and better use their time, which is of course money, to develop.

[ISLAMATRON]

82 hp, 25 kg KERS is no more waste of money than $2000 one time use wheel nuts, or hours of CFD & wind tunnel time developing a minute winglet to hold a mirror.

There is a big difference. KERS have not yield points but the CFD and windtunnel have. Do you even know how CFD or aero work?

Red Bull and Brawn are leading the championship and they are not the top spenders. So it goes to show that clever minds remain mightier than brute cash.

From where do you get your evidence to claim that I'm wrong or misinformed? ISLAMATRON, I would prefer a positive discussion out of this forum, rather than such pointless debate with finger pointing attitude. We all love F1, but what you're doing ain't helping.

Do you not even watch the races? Hamilton very effectively used the KERS to get to 4th(3rd actually) place in Australia, in what is a dog of a car. Did it again in Bahrain, Alonso used it very effectively there too. McLaren were going very well with it in Monaco, a track many thought it wouldnt help much. It also provided some very intriguing battles in Turkey.

I claim you are misinformed because you continue to claim that the rules changes come from the FIA when they clearly come from the teams and must be approved by them and be accepted over Ferrari's veto power. It has even clearly layed out and reported how the 2009 regs were shaped by the OWG, which was made up of employees of the major teams. The 8 engine rule was put forward by the teams, as was the refueling ban and the proposed weight increase. Please be factual in your remarks instead of heaping blame on the wrong parties.

[ISLAMATRON]

jamsbong, your posts are very much uninformed, I would suggest getting your F1 news from several sources rather then just the Ferrari or FOTA websites, or whatever biased, incomplete source from which you derive your info.

I could not disagree more. Jamsbong, I welcome your opinion. That is how we grow and learn, by listening to others, regardless if we agree or not. Just because an individual decides to launch a personal attack because they disagree, please do not be discouraged. For every person with a closed mind, you will find five who who will respectfully listen.

You disagree with getting information from several different sources? Now I see what the problem might be around here... somehow I am closed minded because I suggest to do so... there was no personal attack, I merely pointed out that his assertions that the FIA was (solely) to blame for the constant rules changes in F1 were incorrect and pointed out examples.