So... the question everyone is thinking...

[CMSMJ1]

@ Islamatron.

I am not a Button fanboy..or a fanboy of anyone thank you very much. [-X

Am not going to accuse you of being a Hamilton fanboy either although I suspect you might gladly admit it. You like Lewis more than most as he is non-white. That is cool with me but the facts are that he has not made as big an impact as Senna did and in the current F1 climate the chances of someone turning up and defeating 4 WDCs on a regular basis is not happening.
I'll gladly admit I disliked him to start with (Lewis) but that his performance this year has been superb. =D> He is as fast as anyone out there but the sun does not shine only when he bends over...
There is a life after F1 and outside of F1 although I would class myself as heavily into the sport and as a resultI have respect for my fellow F1 addicted people.

I just find that it is ridiculous to throw such weighted opinions around like solid evidence.

Peace out fella - we'll see how the cookie crumbles come the end of the next season

[compo]

[ISLAMATRON]

Hamilton has had more "impact", wins & WDC's than Senna had in his first 3 years... of course that is because Lewis has been given the oppurtunity to run for a top team, something Senna was not given. We'll see if he would have beaten 2 different WDCs in the same car after next year, something Senna didnt do. Not that he couldnt.

[lebesset]

I sometimes wonder what people understand of human nature
ron dennis signed alonso for large bags of money , and put in a promising novice to partner him

his multi-million signing then turns out not to be fast enough to beat the novice ; how embarrassing ..if it was you , would you then give the big star worse equipment to exacerbate the matter ? as john McEnroe would say , you cannot be serious !
what dennis didn't seem to realise was the degree to which exclusive electronics and exclusive tyres assisted alonso's 2 WDC ; to be fair , when asked a straight question alonso admitted he had equal equipment [ except in spain it seems ]
his beef was that hamilton was not told not to beat him!

and when it came to having to choose between them dennis naturally chose the experienced world champion over the novice for his beloved team ; success before sentiment , that's ron
what's that ? he didn't ? I must have missed something there

[ISLAMATRON]

NO! McLaren favored the rookie over the $40 Million USD 2XWDC! That is the only way Hamilton could beat Alonso! They dropped the lights on his car in Bahrain on purpose! The made Alonso go lawn bowling in Canada! They forced Alonso to go Ape --- in Hungary! And it was McLAren that generated the rain that forced Alonso to crash in Fuji! Not to mention Alonso was forced to drive with square tires all season long! That is the only truth

[Slife]

I think the cosmos have realigned themselves... [-o< [-o<

Jacques Villeneuve got 2nd WDC in his first year. Jacques Villeneuve get WDC in his second year, and in the third year Jacques got 5th place in WDC. This is all like Lewis Hamilton. In their third year (1998 for Jac and 2009 for Ham) major rule changes have happened (Grooved tires for Jac, and different aero for Ham).

So following the celestial bodies I predict Hamilton will finish very lowly.

And following my brain, I predict Hamilton and Button will be equal in points.

[Rob W]

NO! McLaren favored the rookie over the $40 Million USD 2XWDC! That is the only way Hamilton could beat Alonso!...

Interesting you say this Islamatron.

I didn't think much of cries that McLaren made Hamilton's car faster than Alonso's to make it look like they had the wonderkid/next Schumacher or whatever - but then saw a chart someone had compiled (I'll try to find it) which showed the speed trap times for the year and Hamilton was faster than Alonso in almost every race. No reason for that to be in identical cars right? I did make me think: maybe Alonso uses more wing. Apparently not. Maybe he was simply slower in that sector part of the track (but faster in others). Apparently not either. You pretty soon run out of reasons other than his car was simply slightly slower.

Makes you think (without trying to start any massive conspiracy debate/thread).

(and despite the fact they actually ended the season on equal points - same amount of wins, same amount of podiums.. - altho Hamilton had 6 polls to Alonso's 2)

[vall]

as somebody mentioned it some time ago, there were signs of problems between McLaren and Alono's camp already at the 1st race, and it became obvious in Malaysia. Goony, any insights on that?

[kilcoo316]

as somebody mentioned it some time ago, there were signs of problems between McLaren and Alono's camp already at the 1st race, and it became obvious in Malaysia. Goony, any insights on that?

Not fair to put him/her in that position Vall...



You could well be in job at risk territory there.

[ringo]

@ Islamatron.

I am not a Button fanboy..or a fanboy of anyone thank you very much. [-X

Am not going to accuse you of being a Hamilton fanboy either although I suspect you might gladly admit it. You like Lewis more than most as he is non-white. That is cool with me but the facts are that he has not made as big an impact as Senna did and in the current F1 climate the chances of someone turning up and defeating 4 WDCs on a regular basis is not happening.
I'll gladly admit I disliked him to start with (Lewis) but that his performance this year has been superb. =D> He is as fast as anyone out there but the sun does not shine only when he bends over...
There is a life after F1 and outside of F1 although I would class myself as heavily into the sport and as a resultI have respect for my fellow F1 addicted people.

I just find that it is ridiculous to throw such weighted opinions around like solid evidence.

Peace out fella - we'll see how the cookie crumbles come the end of the next season

You are right in your theories, but it does not have to be so, LH can be like shumacher or even Barichello to stay on a plateau of his being competitive.
I don't think you are a fan boy but when you say one thing, you apply the totally opposite for Button. Button most of all should be the one to lose his shine, he is in it for 10 years! and i am not hating on him, because i was watching f1 from 2000, and strangely because he was the only brit, he was one of the most memorable drivers for me over the 10 years.
But you have to check our posts before you call us fan boys, notice that there is some level of reasoning ability and objectivity. If you go to planet F1 you would see the opposite when it comes to kimi and his fans. Completely blind worship.

What i said about tyre performance is not actual data it was just for illustration and is completely true about driving an F1 car. The numbers were hypothetical. I have never driven one but i know that some drivers can deal with driving a problematic car or lost tyre performance.
A good example other than Lewis, is Barichello, i have a lot of ratings for this guy. There are a lot of instances this year where he continues to drive with tyre problems, brake problems, broken front wing, broken diffuser, and he is still able to put in decent lap times and stay close to Button or whoever else. The man is a fighter.
It is a fact that drivers have different levels of confidence as it relates to the state of the car. I don't see what is so fanboyish about that

[ringo]

NO! McLaren favored the rookie over the $40 Million USD 2XWDC! That is the only way Hamilton could beat Alonso!...

Interesting you say this Islamatron.

I didn't think much of cries that McLaren made Hamilton's car faster than Alonso's to make it look like they had the wonderkid/next Schumacher or whatever - but then saw a chart someone had compiled (I'll try to find it) which showed the speed trap times for the year and Hamilton was faster than Alonso in almost every race. No reason for that to be in identical cars right? I did make me think: maybe Alonso uses more wing. Apparently not. Maybe he was simply slower in that sector part of the track (but faster in others). Apparently not either. You pretty soon run out of reasons other than his car was simply slightly slower.

Makes you think (without trying to start any massive conspiracy debate/thread).

(and despite the fact they actually ended the season on equal points - same amount of wins, same amount of podiums.. - altho Hamilton had 6 polls to Alonso's 2)

That is not enough info to conclude a car was faster. And I wouldn't believe that data before i see it my self. If he knows how to exit the previous turn better, he will set up well for the straight. Other factors include ride height, and other setting up.
The cars were equal, Hamilton was just faster than Alonso. Alonso came to Mclaren to win and get a 3rd WDC and was paid accordingly to get mclaren the WDC. That was Mclaren's intention. Lewis was in no way part of the plan, he wasn't even paid as a prospective champion, showing you he was only there for the learning experience. Alonso was simply outclassed. He knows this and this is why he has come to respect Hamilton as a driver and can't wait to challenge him next year.

[nipo]

I wouldn't go as far as to say we should look at drivers after they finished their careers, but then Jacques Villeneuve is a classic example. I used to think Alonso had a special ability to go quick with only half of his brainpower, saving the rest for tyre management, tweaks to the strategy and keeping up with information on track. Over 08 and 09, he has greatly disappointed by making numerous silly mistakes and wrong bets as he struggled to put on impressive performances with a crappy car. Also his part in the spygate and the implications of the crashgate just makes him an uneasy fella to work with, at least. He seemed to have lost cool altogether... So it's true, we need to take a longer term view.

Hamilton is still unknown to me. For 2 years he's got the quickest car and this season he's got the quickest car in the last few races when the McLaren with KERS has outclassed everybody (in the last race Lewis qualified more than half a second ahead of SV). Otherwise he's doing very well, you can say, but I really can't judge as yet. His coming out with 9 consecutive podiums (am I correct?) in his rookie year was very impressive though, and that should be remembered. I'd say Lewis is at least the top 3 in the current grid. That does not make me a fan of him because I don't like his personality (and his "management").

Even Ross Brawn has said that Jenson needs a good car. If you throw something worthless at him he's worthless, if you give him something really good he will shine and do a better job than most (in the same car). Ross has also compared Jenson to Michael, saying that the latter has the natural ability to hide the imperfections in a car. I think that pretty much concludes Jenson is not the best of the best. He's done a superb job this year, though, and several of his wins he really had to overtake on track in a very determined manner over the opening laps - something not many drivers do today. He knows his craft and if McLaren gives him a superb car next year, I would not rule him out to match closely to Lewis, or even to come out on top. And, to me Jenson has a more likeable personality (but that doesn't make me his fan either).

Overall, Lewis is the more complete and talented driver, but results will hinge on whether McLaren is going to produce a competitive car and keep it that way throughout the season.

Regarding the poll... kilcoo, let's say you right eventually Lewis out-shines Jenson next year, what is so brilliant about your bias? Kimi out-shone Felipe in 2007 and look what happened the year after... Your poll IS biased. Period.

[mx_tifoso]

... Your poll IS biased. Period.

You think? But the important thing is that he doesn't try to hide it.

He has made his point, job done.

If someone has a different point of view than what the poll allows, the only options are to ignore the thread or post your opinion.

Obviously we'll see how this pans out in almost a years time.

For now lets try to contain our rage due to the lack of GP's under control.

[ringo]

@nipo What's wrong with JV?? He did what he could.
I don't get why people don't rate the man, i haven't seen him race live, but i am not going to adopt the culture of disregarding the guy because everybody else does.
I heard he has a very flashy driving style and was successful in other racing series.

Alonso is good, i think differently of his 09 and 08 years. I watch him closely and I can still see some brilliance in his driving, he also has a knack for getting the car to Q3 or in the points. He was doing well and the first half too. The drives say more than the points.
I reserve the comment for driver personalities because i don't know any of these drivers personally to say i don't like them. This sounds cliche but their personality is very much a part of their ability, you can't separate the driver's talent from his spirit.
So I realize you have to accept the drivers for the what you get when you see them, doesn't make sense wasting energy on nitpicking personality traits or even their managers. This manager in question is 100% responsible for what we see on track with Hamilton so gotta give him props.
Alonso is a douche but i don't mind him or grudge him, i respect his accomplishments. He is the only multi champion on the grid now, he is the real big man on track.
Button now, he gets annoying with his trying to convince us he is the champion with wage demands and what not, almost like he doesn't believe it himself. But he has all rights to behave how he is.

[Terrible3]

would agree that hamilton is the quickest driver currently in F1 , by a margin now ...he was as quick as alonso in his rookie year ; but there is more than being fast , a champion has to be consistant as well[-X

The quickest by a margin, yea right. Don't get me wrong I think he is the best driver in F1 right now but I am sure in outright pace Vettel or Alonso could more than give him a run for his money.

As far as everyone talking about LH locking up his inside front a lot under breaking its not as bad as it looks. He is on the absolute limit and the tire locks up for a fraction of a second as it is under less load than the outside wheel. Its not like he leaves skid marks on the track or flat spots the tire. On the technical side that front diff that BAR had for a short time would solve this issue.

Also sure JB would be easier on his tires, but if he wants to match LH pace well he will have to give up some tire wear and really push. Driving at %90-95 may have won him races and preserved tires in the Brawn but he will have to give %100-120 to match LH. I am really excited to seem them race next year, I may have to eat my words on JB but time will tell. The excitement builds.