2023 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 20 - 22

[cplchanb]

Max is a sly, sly driver. Shrewd. Calculated. Schumacheresque. Reminded me today of the days when Schumacher would lose some gears and still take the win. He’s a better driver than I realized. Much respect.

I would not put max in the same paragraph with schumacher. what we saw yesterday on the radio further confirms that max is still very hot headed under pressure and goes on radio tirades when things go anything other than perfect for him. when his brakes were in trouble he was swearing, cussing and not level headed.

schumacher hardly ever went to those tirades. even vettel in his rb years wasnt that bad.
sure hes fast but when things go wrong he acts like a spoiled brat. that is NOT passion filled emotion, its the immaturity to stay level headed.

[cplchanb]

Merc BONED Lewis. Race strategy sodomy. Lewis should hire a proctologist.

Dunno if this is so black and white:
Without any tire offset the middle stint would have been much slower. The undercut by RB was also that strong, that it was borderline to cover it and there were ATs all around. I think, this is the point that is missed, Ham would have ended behind Tsunoda...
In the end the question is if it would have made any sence to run the rest of the race with simial old or older tires than Lando....and giving in contrast RedBull the chance to extend the middle stint.

dont forget he wouldve had to run his final stint longer on meds. who knows if the pirelli marshmallows would last for 5 more laps under that load and stay competitive. ham was really pushing it for that stint. we saw how norris' hards fell away fast.

[DChemTech]

Max is a sly, sly driver. Shrewd. Calculated. Schumacheresque. Reminded me today of the days when Schumacher would lose some gears and still take the win. He’s a better driver than I realized. Much respect.

I would not put max in the same paragraph with schumacher. what we saw yesterday on the radio further confirms that max is still very hot headed under pressure and goes on radio tirades when things go anything other than perfect for him. when his brakes were in trouble he was swearing, cussing and not level headed.

schumacher hardly ever went to those tirades. even vettel in his rb years wasnt that bad.
sure hes fast but when things go wrong he acts like a spoiled brat. that is NOT passion filled emotion, its the immaturity to stay level headed.

Schumacher not hot-headed? He won (and lost) championships by bumping off the competition.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Merc BONED Lewis. Race strategy sodomy. Lewis should hire a proctologist.

Dunno if this is so black and white:
Without any tire offset the middle stint would have been much slower. The undercut by RB was also that strong, that it was borderline to cover it and there were ATs all around. I think, this is the point that is missed, Ham would have ended behind Tsunoda...
In the end the question is if it would have made any sence to run the rest of the race with simial old or older tires than Lando....and giving in contrast RedBull the chance to extend the middle stint.

dont forget he wouldve had to run his final stint longer on meds. who knows if the pirelli marshmallows would last for 5 more laps under that load and stay competitive. ham was really pushing it for that stint. we saw how norris' hards fell away fast.

We hardly got ANY driver comms back then. No idea how to compare the two eras on that front. However I’m still not a fan at all of the way he talks over the radio. Sets a poor example to a younger generation. It’s not okay

[cplchanb]

Dunno if this is so black and white:
Without any tire offset the middle stint would have been much slower. The undercut by RB was also that strong, that it was borderline to cover it and there were ATs all around. I think, this is the point that is missed, Ham would have ended behind Tsunoda...
In the end the question is if it would have made any sence to run the rest of the race with simial old or older tires than Lando....and giving in contrast RedBull the chance to extend the middle stint.

dont forget he wouldve had to run his final stint longer on meds. who knows if the pirelli marshmallows would last for 5 more laps under that load and stay competitive. ham was really pushing it for that stint. we saw how norris' hards fell away fast.

We hardly got ANY driver comms back then. No idea how to compare the two eras on that front. However I’m still not a fan at all of the way he talks over the radio. Sets a poor example to a younger generation. It’s not okay

fair enough, but you can see radio comms from the last 10 years. look at the way ham handled setbacks. sure there were many complaints over the radio but there were hardly any out of control swearing tirades. as a multiple WDC there is a higher standard that they need to conduct themselves since they represent the top of F1 to the world. max cannot behave like some junkyard dog all the time.

[cplchanb]

Max is a sly, sly driver. Shrewd. Calculated. Schumacheresque. Reminded me today of the days when Schumacher would lose some gears and still take the win. He’s a better driver than I realized. Much respect.

I would not put max in the same paragraph with schumacher. what we saw yesterday on the radio further confirms that max is still very hot headed under pressure and goes on radio tirades when things go anything other than perfect for him. when his brakes were in trouble he was swearing, cussing and not level headed.

schumacher hardly ever went to those tirades. even vettel in his rb years wasnt that bad.
sure hes fast but when things go wrong he acts like a spoiled brat. that is NOT passion filled emotion, its the immaturity to stay level headed.

Schumacher not hot-headed? He won (and lost) championships by bumping off the competition.

lets not be selective. max took many pages from schumis book on moves on track.
however lets look back at 2012 when radio comm broadcasting to the world was rising. merc was a tyre eater every race, but did we ever hear schumi go on a rant all the time complaining that his tyres were fukd? I think the only time we heard him swore that year was when he collided with senna in spain.

[basti313]

On a different note, here we have Ocon yet again doing Ocon things. Getting involved in "racing incidents" where he is the primary instigator.
He is completely oblivious to Piastri on his outside. Only looking in his right hand mirror, crash coming to him completely by surprise. This guy is a slightly faster Grosjean, and thats all he is. Dude's taken out 5 cars in 2 races, more than even Perez managed in Japan and Singapore?

I don't see what Ocon is meant to do there? You're always going to wash out wide, it's a racing incident.

Haven't seen Piastri's onboard so not sure how big of a risk he took.

Throttle works both ways. From piastri's view there is no risk, ocon is just slow over the bumps which allows piastri to get slightly ahead very early and he's ahead for a good 2-3 seconds before the crash, which ocon was perfectly able to avoid, had he not been solely fixated on beating gasly out of turn one. Another Ocon habit, nothing else matters except beating his teammate, thats why he doesnt even entertain the possibility of someone coming from the outside, its completely out of his mental capacity in that moment.

Dunno as well....
I mean, this video is intersting:
- It shows that Ham does not give a --- about the Ferraris. He was just making sure Verstappen is well outside the track even compromising the exit for this, he needed to steer to the ourside.
- It shows that Ocon is actually leaving much space on the outside for Gas. Remarkable, he could have also just gone for the apex there as Hamilton did.

I would put the crash into the "bad driving" category. Nothing more. Slam dunk penalty. Same topic as always.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I would not put max in the same paragraph with schumacher. what we saw yesterday on the radio further confirms that max is still very hot headed under pressure and goes on radio tirades when things go anything other than perfect for him. when his brakes were in trouble he was swearing, cussing and not level headed.

schumacher hardly ever went to those tirades. even vettel in his rb years wasnt that bad.
sure hes fast but when things go wrong he acts like a spoiled brat. that is NOT passion filled emotion, its the immaturity to stay level headed.

Schumacher not hot-headed? He won (and lost) championships by bumping off the competition.

lets not be selective. max took many pages from schumis book on moves on track.
however lets look back at 2012 when radio comm broadcasting to the world was rising. merc was a tyre eater every race, but did we ever hear schumi go on a rant all the time complaining that his tyres were fukd? I think the only time we heard him swore that year was when he collided with senna in spain.

I think you’re just using an extremely poor example. As a matter of fact to make your point you don’t need ANY comparison. Regardless of who he is, swearing like a trooper and being that angry isn’t a good look. I’m sure we can agree on that. It’s not great from a team/sponsor or public perspective. He needs to be told to rein it in and grow up.

[ali623]

On a different note, here we have Ocon yet again doing Ocon things. Getting involved in "racing incidents" where he is the primary instigator.
He is completely oblivious to Piastri on his outside. Only looking in his right hand mirror, crash coming to him completely by surprise. This guy is a slightly faster Grosjean, and thats all he is. Dude's taken out 5 cars in 2 races, more than even Perez managed in Japan and Singapore?

I don't see what Ocon is meant to do there? You're always going to wash out wide, it's a racing incident.

Haven't seen Piastri's onboard so not sure how big of a risk he took.

Throttle works both ways. From piastri's view there is no risk, ocon is just slow over the bumps which allows piastri to get slightly ahead very early and he's ahead for a good 2-3 seconds before the crash, which ocon was perfectly able to avoid, had he not been solely fixated on beating gasly out of turn one. Another Ocon habit, nothing else matters except beating his teammate, thats why he doesnt even entertain the possibility of someone coming from the outside, its completely out of his mental capacity in that moment.

I disagree, Ocon goes up the inside of Gasly because he got a better start, and leaves him plenty of room on the outside on exit - you're just making up a narrative based on your perception of the driver. After that, Piastri sticking it around the outside, especially in a lap one scenario at a corner like that, is always a risk. It's just a simple racing incident, no need to insult a driver because of it.

[TFSA]

I don't see what Ocon is meant to do there? You're always going to wash out wide, it's a racing incident.

Haven't seen Piastri's onboard so not sure how big of a risk he took.

Throttle works both ways. From piastri's view there is no risk, ocon is just slow over the bumps which allows piastri to get slightly ahead very early and he's ahead for a good 2-3 seconds before the crash, which ocon was perfectly able to avoid, had he not been solely fixated on beating gasly out of turn one. Another Ocon habit, nothing else matters except beating his teammate, thats why he doesnt even entertain the possibility of someone coming from the outside, its completely out of his mental capacity in that moment.

Calling it a lap 1 racing incident is perfectly justifiable, but i do see where you're coming from. Ocon completely neglected the possibility of a car on the outside, and it's obvious he understeered as well.

[organic]

On a different note, here we have Ocon yet again doing Ocon things. Getting involved in "racing incidents" where he is the primary instigator.
He is completely oblivious to Piastri on his outside. Only looking in his right hand mirror, crash coming to him completely by surprise. This guy is a slightly faster Grosjean, and thats all he is. Dude's taken out 5 cars in 2 races, more than even Perez managed in Japan and Singapore?

While I'd tend to agree, maybe the huge bump that Ocon hits just prior to running into Piastri unsettled the car and forced him to adopt this line? Feeling charitable

[basti313]

On a different note, here we have Ocon yet again doing Ocon things. Getting involved in "racing incidents" where he is the primary instigator.
He is completely oblivious to Piastri on his outside. Only looking in his right hand mirror, crash coming to him completely by surprise. This guy is a slightly faster Grosjean, and thats all he is. Dude's taken out 5 cars in 2 races, more than even Perez managed in Japan and Singapore?

While I'd tend to agree, maybe the huge bump that Ocon hits just prior to running into Piastri unsettled the car and forced him to adopt this line? Feeling charitable

He did not lift at all...you need to watch the video with sound. That is just poor driving, nothing else.

[Juzh]

On a different note, here we have Ocon yet again doing Ocon things. Getting involved in "racing incidents" where he is the primary instigator.
He is completely oblivious to Piastri on his outside. Only looking in his right hand mirror, crash coming to him completely by surprise. This guy is a slightly faster Grosjean, and thats all he is. Dude's taken out 5 cars in 2 races, more than even Perez managed in Japan and Singapore?

While I'd tend to agree, maybe the huge bump that Ocon hits just prior to running into Piastri unsettled the car and forced him to adopt this line? Feeling charitable

I mean he predicts the bump and goes off throttle to not unsettle too much, then goes back to full or at least almost full.. I don't feel as charitable because ocon gets involved in these 60-40 or 70-30 incidents that always require the other driver to play ball with him completely, otherwise a crash is coming.

[AR3-GP]

To me it looks like Ocon was focused on finding Gasly on his inside (for reasons...), and thus did not see Piastri on his outside.

I don't see any bumps. If you look at the edge of the track, Ocon hasn't left space like there is a car on the outside. So I think he simply is not aware of Piastri as Piastri was moving back onto the circuit and Ocon needs to leave space if he saw him.

[Sieper]

I don't see what Ocon is meant to do there? You're always going to wash out wide, it's a racing incident.

Haven't seen Piastri's onboard so not sure how big of a risk he took.

Throttle works both ways. From piastri's view there is no risk, ocon is just slow over the bumps which allows piastri to get slightly ahead very early and he's ahead for a good 2-3 seconds before the crash, which ocon was perfectly able to avoid, had he not been solely fixated on beating gasly out of turn one. Another Ocon habit, nothing else matters except beating his teammate, thats why he doesnt even entertain the possibility of someone coming from the outside, its completely out of his mental capacity in that moment.

Dunno as well....
I mean, this video is intersting:
- It shows that Ham does not give a --- about the Ferraris. He was just making sure Verstappen is well outside the track even compromising the exit for this, he needed to steer to the ourside.
- It shows that Ocon is actually leaving much space on the outside for Gas. Remarkable, he could have also just gone for the apex there as Hamilton did.

I would put the crash into the "bad driving" category. Nothing more. Slam dunk penalty. Same topic as always.

Hamilton knew the battle was with Ver, and a bit Nor. Everyone knew, even me. So ofc he goes out of his way to manoeuvre Max out of contention for an overtake. Max had a good start and already positioned himself on the outside. If Lewis kept a tighter corner Max would have had him. But it was funny to see indeed.