Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[Pandamasque]

The rules are perfectly fine, the curb and the grass denotes the track boundary.

Really???

CHAPTER IV
2.
c) Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of
doubt:
- the white lines defining the track edges are considered to
be part of the track but the kerbs are not and
- a driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the
car remains in contact with the track.
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 202010.pdf

[twoshots]

Your quotation seems to agree with ringo. Both of you are using the kerb as a definition of the edge of the track. ringo only need move his line to include the kerb in the off-track area and we all agree.

By that rule neither Alonso nor Hamilton left the track on entry to the pit lane.

Whether the pit lane 'run-in' (for want of a better term) is considered part of the track or not has not, to my knowledge, been explicitly defined. Given the rulings on the Alonso/Massa and Hamilton/Vettel pit entries I guess we must assume it part of the track and overtaking is allowed.

[Giblet]

Right.

And the short version of my previous long post, is if the rules for the Pit Lane start at the speed line, by exclusion, the Pit Entry is not part of the Pit Lane, and since it has no rules specific to itself like the Pit Exit does, it is just another part of the race track, and is encompassed by those rules.

I don't see any failure with that logic, and have been sticking by it the whole time, even when accompanied by loud baseless arguments from others.

Lewis and Fernando just seemed to know this, and why not? It's their job.

[vall]

Right.

And the short version of my previous long post, is if the rules for the Pit Lane start at the speed line, by exclusion, the Pit Entry is not part of the Pit Lane, and since it has no rules specific to itself like the Pit Exit does, it is just another part of the race track, and is encompassed by those rules.

I don't see any failure with that logic, and have been sticking by it the whole time, even when accompanied by loud baseless arguments from others.

Lewis and Fernando just seemed to know this, and why not? It's their job.

Reading the regs, it is clear both did nothing wrong. People get upset because the pit entrance is the last place to expect overtaking to take place. But if it is allowed by the regs why not! Along this line of thoughts, Vettel has all rights to attack after Lewis overtook him!

I am surprised that the regs do not say how to drive in the pit lane! Only the speed limit fixed. I guess this should be clarified in the future, no?

[myurr]

Reading the regs, it is clear both did nothing wrong. People get upset because the pit entrance is the last place to expect overtaking to take place. But if it is allowed by the regs why not! Along this line of thoughts, Vettel has all rights to attack after Lewis overtook him!

I am surprised that the regs do not say how to drive in the pit lane! Only the speed limit fixed. I guess this should be clarified in the future, no?

I tend to agree with you, although there are regs about running another car off the track and Vettel arguably pushed Hamilton off the track into the pit garages.

I think the stewards actually handed down the right decision, with a warning for each driver to cool it in the pit lane. My beef is with all those criticising Hamilton whilst claiming Vettel was blameless, when it's clear that Vettel was being just as (if not more) boneheaded.

[KingOfBrampton]

So, LH legitimately (if unconventionally)overtakes SV on the pitlane entry. SV reaches his box first and he gets a new set of boots. He can see LH reach his box and start his tyre change. SV's lolipop goes up, and he can see that LH's hasn't so he goes for it and makes an excellent getaway.

Ahead of him, LH can't see SV but knows he has to get away smartly to stay ahead of SV. His lolipop goes up, but he's trying so hard to get away that he gets wheelspin which loses him his advantage. As the grip comes back he's pointing straight at SV, now coming past in the pitlane proper. LH avoids the collision causing the 'tank slapper' seen on the video, ending up a nose behind SV and parallel.

Now, LH is as much of a racer as SV so he doesn't back out of it, probably thinking he can get the drop on SV as they cross the speed limiter line. SV doesn't want LH on his right, as that gives him the advantage at the following corner - so he leans on LH a bit.... LH can see their tracks are overlapping, but he can't go right as he's in danger of running over assorted airguns, mechanics and such. So LH has to wait until SV moves left enough to allow him to drop back and get under SV's tail.

OK, it's exposed a possible safety issue in the pitlane, but something that can probably be covered by driver briefings in the same way as the 'don't cross the white line on exiting the pitlane' issue referred to elsewhere. BUT it was evidence of close, exciting racing by two drivers who were going for it.

[segedunum]

And the short version of my previous long post, is if the rules for the Pit Lane start at the speed line, by exclusion, the Pit Entry is not part of the Pit Lane........

:-" Where are the regulations that say this, and override ones already discussed?

You keep posting this, but until you come up with something conrete that this is based on it's.........bollocks.

[segedunum]

I tend to agree with you, although there are regs about running another car off the track and Vettel arguably pushed Hamilton off the track into the pit garages.

Sigh............. When you're in front you're not running another driver off the circuit I'm afraid. You're entitled to place your car anywhere you like within the boundaries you are given. Vettel was in the pit lane, Hamilton wasn't.

[segedunum]

No. There was a big difference. Hamilton and Vettel entered the pitlane side by side. Alonso entered behind Massa.

No. I'm afraid you will find that Hamilton maintained his position by going off track, outside the pit lane entry and track boundaries, and entering the pit lane from there. Vettel entered the pit lane normally. Ditto for Alonso and Massa.

[segedunum]

The rules are perfectly fine, the curb and the grass denotes the track boundary.

Really???

- the white lines defining the track edges are considered to
be part of the track but the kerbs are not

Yep, that's what the white lines mean on pit entry and pit exit and elsewhere - no exceptions. That's how you are judged to have entered the pit lane, or are in the pit exit or are on track.

EDIT: However, this is the pit lane entry and are governed by somewhat different and stricter rules and provisions. You don't normally get penalised for going off-track. You simply can't cross the lines on pit entry or exit.

[Giblet]

There are no rules that say anything about the pit entry being special, or unique from the pit lane.

If it is part of the pit lane, it falls under the pit lane rules. Since there is no speed limit in the pit entry, it does not fall under the pit lane rules. Simple.

Therefore, it isn't special. If it isn't special, it's part of the race track.

If there are rules stating it is part of the pit lane, I can't find them

Can you?

[segedunum]

There are no rules that say anything about the pit entry being special, or unique from the pit lane.

Once again, you're desperate to make a distinction between pit exit and entry. There isn't one - which is why you mention the pit lane but not the pit exit.

[Giblet]

The pit exit has it's own special rules, Seg. They involve the white line and crossing it.

There is not regulation about this for the Pit Entry.

I am merely inviting you to quote a rule that proves what you are saying.

I am not desperate, I am clinging to the same logic I was in the beginning, and waiting for you to use logic, or rules to disprove it.

[segedunum]

The pit exit has it's own special rules, Seg. They involve the white line and crossing it.

Pit lane exit ruling:

e) "Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards of the Meeting), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits."

There is not regulation about this for the Pit Entry. I am merely inviting you to quote a rule that proves what you are saying. I am not desperate, I am clinging to the same logic I was in the beginning, and waiting for you to use logic, or rules to disprove it.

Pit lane entry ruling:

d) "Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited."

Notice anything different about those clauses, apart from the fact that one clearly refers to the exit and the other to the entry? The clauses are identical and clear. I've even highlighted the pit entry part in italics, just in case you still don't get it - more in hope than anything else.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 202010.pdf

Page 18.

You obviously know about this because you flimsily tried to argue that Hamilton was off-track at one point and so this didn't count. Unfortunately, the rule provides no provision for that as it just tells us that crossing the line is prohibited no matter what.

FLC posted his ages ago, and you just cannot read it. Pages of meaningless crap pass, and you then keep reposting your nonsense in the hope that everyone will have forgotten. You keep asking me for something to back up what I'm saying, and it's been done and dusted. Nothing anywhere backs up what you are repeating and you've quoted nothing apart from your assumptions, as I'd pointed out several blue moons back.

[ringo]

Bernie has no problem, so should we:

"What are they talking about? Isn't this sport all about racing?" Ecclestone explained to the 'Mirror'. "I thought Lewis had a fantastic race. He drove really well and they should stop complaining and get on with the racing.

"I loved watching his performance in Sepang. I bet the fans did too. It was a whole lot of moaning about nothing," he added.

Hamilton is making him more money and he sees no problem with that.



In summary, Hamilton crushed both redbulls, who were supposed to be untouchable and in line for a 1 2, and he dealt with them swiftly like they were HRTs.
More like they got a 1 2 punch.

A whole lot of moaning about nothing, really. Just some guys getting their ass handed to them on the track, and their fans trying to salvage their dignity by faulting the guy who's doing the serving.

Vettel and Webber before the race:



After a meeting in the BOSS' office:


Look like they went through hell and back..